Rosin

[David Powell]

OK, I'll add my $.01, and that must be taken as coming from someone with only 4 yrs. experience with a bow, starting with something (fibreglass) that should not even be called a bow. After a year I upgraded to a Brazilwood bow which I have now re-haired with black hair and have been using for the past few years with some different rosins. I do practice daily, so the four years has been fairly fruitful, but also full of experimentation and some dead ends. I use a German style bow also and Helicore Orchestral strings.

I started with Pops on the advice of my favorite string shop friend here and that was great with my old cheap plywood bass and about all that would get a good sound from that instrument. Still, it was pretty harsh. On the recommendation of my teacher, I cut that with Hidersine #2, couple swipes of Pops, couple swipes of Hidersine. That was a lot smoother sounding and still had fairly good grab if the bow was warmed up. That might not be the same as the Hidersine Jeff used. I also had some "give-away" Hidersine all-weather rosin that fits Jeff's description in total;- totally useless.

I started trying Carlsson rosin when I purchased a spare bow while my first bow was being repaired due to a careless accident and I found that while it was less scratchy sounding than Pops, it didn't have dependable grab on the low strings and also created a huge amount of powder. By this time I had upgraded to an inexpensive carved bass with 5 strings and getting that low BB to start early in the morning was like an old Diesel on a cold day, so it was back to Pops for a spell. Finally I started using Gaston Brohan's Oak in all three grades. That is certainly my current favorite. Depending on the weather, I get good results with all three grades but reserve the hard grade for temps above 80 F.

I still check back and forth with my spare bow on different days, which still has white hair, just to make sure;- but it seems so far that I have just been confirming my preference for the black hair. I find that I use far less rosin of any kind with that hair, and a couple of swipes with Pops can last a really long time, but it is also really scratchy with the black hair. The oak medium works best when it is not too hot and I will probably go back to the oak soft in the autumn. I like being able to mix these when it seems useful. Having 3 grades of the same stuff makes getting it just right easier.

I have found it very useful to make sure the bow hair is warm before I add any rosin to it. I just slide it briskly over the strings and usually after a few passes it starts catching and I can tell if I need to refresh the rosin. In spite of my best efforts, I just can not get rosin to build up on my bow hair, my strings, or anywhere on my bass. It seems to come off gradually as a powder onto the strings and wipes off with a soft cloth. There are some very small specs on the body of the bass, but it is finished with nitrocellulose and the rosin doesn't like to stick to it and it comes off with a little Gibson guitar polish.

Also, I've had the same cake of Pops since 2002. In an odd turn of circumstance, I actually had the Pops for several months before I had a bass. It was fresh in 2002 and does not seem to have changed or hardened at all. Like Ken reports, it is a fairly messy, sticky stuff that if left out of the container on a table top will flatten out onto the table in spite of the paper catsup cup it comes in. It must be kept in the plastic box or it will glue itself to something. The Carlsson was almost as bad.

I would imagine that depending on the bass, the strings, the bow, and the hair, and also the weather, that there is just no one best rosin for every player in every situation. It isn't dirt cheap to experiment, but fortunately rosin is not so expensive that it is cost prohibitive to try some different ones out. Definitely it seems that one will work better than another for most players.

[Jeff Moote]

Lots of good points David:

Originally Posted by David Powell

That might not be the same as the Hidersine Jeff used. I also had some "give-away" Hidersine all-weather rosin that fits Jeff's description in total;- totally useless.

That sounds about right. I'm sure the whole brand isn't crap, but it certainly isn't "the good stuff". If you needed something as hard as what I had (say, you're Gary Karr or something) I'd just go with cello rosin (as Gary does).

Having 3 grades of the same stuff makes getting it just right easier.

I agree! Right before I got the Oak I was mixing some old dried up Carlsson's with my Kolstein soft (alternating strokes) and got passable results, but having varying grades of the same stuff is nice.

I have found it very useful to make sure the bow hair is warm before I add any rosin to it. I just slide it briskly over the strings and usually after a few passes it starts catching and I can tell if I need to refresh the rosin.

I usually do this, then play for at least a minute or two before considering any new rosin. Since I started with the Oak medium, I use much less than I used to.

It must be kept in the plastic box or it will glue itself to something. The Carlsson was almost as bad.

Hmm, my Carlsson cake is nothing like this - now it's very dry and powdery (getting to be rather useless) but even when fresh it was more like the Oak medium than any other rosin I've tried.

I would imagine that depending on the bass, the strings, the bow, and the hair, and also the weather, that there is just no one best rosin for every player in every situation.

...

Definitely it seems that one will work better than another for most players.

Again, I agree 100%. Once you find what works it's a great thing - rosin is probably nearly as personal as strings.

[stan haskins]

Originally Posted by Jeff Moote

Lots of good points David:
That sounds about right. I'm sure the whole brand isn't crap, but it certainly isn't "the good stuff". If you needed something as hard as what I had (say, you're Gary Karr or something) I'd just go with cello rosin (as Gary does).

I agree! Right before I got the Oak I was mixing some old dried up Carlsson's with my Kolstein soft (alternating strokes) and got passable results, but having varying grades of the same stuff is nice.

I usually do this, then play for at least a minute or two before considering any new rosin. Since I started with the Oak medium, I use much less than I used to.

Hmm, my Carlsson cake is nothing like this - now it's very dry and powdery (getting to be rather useless) but even when fresh it was more like the Oak medium than any other rosin I've tried.

Again, I agree 100%. Once you find what works it's a great thing - rosin is probably nearly as personal as strings.

Good discussion. I never experienced any of the problems you guys mentioned with Carlsson's, though- it's never gotten powdery or dried out on me since I started using it about 10 years ago.

I think the oak might be astep up, though - I got to try it once or twice, and it seemed to Grab "perfectly", without the added "thump" on the attack that you can get Carlssons, Pops, or Kolstein's.

IME, Pops wears out to fast. It's very sticky, then it's gone. It's not worth the trouble fo me.

[Jeff Tranauskas]

When I first started using a bow I tried Carlsson rosin with limited success.

Then I switched to Clarity Winter. The Clarity was OK when the humidity was low but didn't work well on humid days.

After a while I was given a cake of Pops and have used it ever since.
Pops is messy but I usually wipe the bass down after playing it anyway.
I like the grab I get from the Pops and, truth be told , I need all the help I can get.


With all of the positive comments on the Oak rosin I will definitely get some and see how it runs.
Keep the posts coming. We will eventually get to the best rosin.

[Joel Larsson]

I thought it is time to revive this thread. I'm on a rosin rampage anyway.

I started out with Nymans, but it's been such a long time that I cannot give any proper opinion on it. All I remember is that it used to break into pieces if you dropped it, but that might be because my cake was very old.

Pops was a great help when I wasn't good enough to have a good tone. I just applied a lot of it, and it produced a loud note. But as I kept developing, I got the feeling that it was overly brutal or harsh, and that maybe it actually prevented me from getting a good sound. That being said, Pops in the hands of a great player is great, but I was using it as a shortcut to a controlled tone. Today, the things keeping me from trying it again is that it seems to produce more sizzling than most other good rosins, and that it produces such a ridiculous amount of gunk. I have seen so many basses whose varnish is ruined forever because the owner hasn't wiped off the residues every day. The other rosins either produce a dustlike powder that doesn't harm the varnish, or neraly none at all.

So I got myself a cake of Carlsson. I immediately got the feeling that this is a good rosin, but that I wasn't able to get the grip and attack that I did get with Pops. (I didn't want as much attack, but SOME.) I realised that this was partly because I had been cheating with my attack by the Pops overload, but after almost a year I got tired of constantly trying to make a sound in the orchestra. Maybe it requires a more responsive bass, or the thick Eudoxas I was playing just didn't fit the rosin.

Gaston Brohan's Oak rosin was next upon the bill. I really, really liked this rosin. I mostly use the soft cake, and a swipe of medium, but I'm mostly residing in Arctic climates. The Oak has more bite than Carlsson, but doesn't sizzle and is more gentle than Pops. Allowed me to increase my dynamic range - louder than Carlsson, quieter than Pops. Four times as expensive as Pops if you use two cakes - which you ought to do, it's a treat! - but it lasts a lot longer, too. The principal player in a München orchestra tried my bow, though, and complained that my rosin was too dry and that I really needed another rosin. He suggested - Nymans! If there was one thing I remembered about Nymans, it was that it seemed so very dry to me... so, I've realised I have to try the Carlsson and Nymans one more time before settling with something. Still had some more brands to go, though. However, I might very well be going back to this Oak stuff someday.

Then, I decided to try the most expensive stuff out there, the Liebenzeller Metall-Kolophonium, made of Larch gum with gold dust and meteor iron and some other really cool stuff in it. Four times the price per cake as Pops, and a quarter the size! They say it lasts a long time, though. Whatever. I wouldn't play the bass if I was tight-bottomed when it comes to money. After the recent rehairing of my bow, it was time to try it out. So far, it may very well provide me with the sweetest sound yet; it's tonal qualities are just great. If Pops is a lot 'in your face', and Oak is a lot less so, this is even less obnoxious in it's projection, if that term be used. It doesn't lack excitation, though. I would perhaps have second thoughts about using it as a solo rosin, but the trial period is far from over. It'll ake a great orchestral rosin. Besides its sweet sound, it can also make the bass go VROOOOM!! without you losing control of it. It leaves a minimum of residue on the bass. There is one major problem that hasn't gone away yet, though - I just can't get a smooth, soft attack on a bow near the frog. Yes, there are some technical difficulties to take under consideration, but I could do it before. Now it sounds all metallic and scratchy. I've tried to even it out and remove any excess rosin with a piece of cloth, but no. I hope I only have to let the rosin break in a bit more - this is so close!!
The cake I have is the Gold Version. There is also a Silver-lead rosin that is said to be suitable for the Double Bass. Maybe an extra swipe of that could make the harshness near the frog go away... it could perhaps also be a result of some defect in the hair..? It has also been said that it should be used very sparingly, and maybe I was too eager to get the strings playing and applied too much of it as once. Still, I DID wipe it with a cloth...

I have a cake of Petz Premium (I thought I'd go right for their most expensive type) on the way, which is supposed to be a bit reminiscent of Pops, but with a more 'natural' feel - probably coming from the fact that this is beewax-based (which I though was greasy, but I suppose it works) as opposed to the synthetic Pops. I'll try this, and hopefully some Melos, before summer's end, if I get my other bow back from its repair in time, or if the Liebenzeller doesn't start playing properly.

[Ken Smith]

"Poor guy" I'm saying to myself after reading the post above.

You have a Pollmann Bass? Using a Snakewood bow not because the other bow is broken?

Ok, I assume that you are a professional player from what I have read so we will not go there for now.

Factors that might affect the sound of bowing capabilities?;

1-The Bass (some bow easier than others).

2-The Strings (some work better than others).

3-The set-up between Bass and Strings.

4-The Bow itself (balance and quality matters)

5-The Bow Hair itself (old hair eats rosin and doesn't work well. Bad Hair is just that, bad and low quality)

6-The Re-Hair of your Bow. (this is like set-up. It must be done right but even more important as there is no way for the player to compensate)

7-And last might possibly be the climate but I saved this for last because all of the good rosins you tried just didn't work. If the other players in your area can use them, you should be able to as well.

>Brands I know, have used and have liked?;

>Kolstein's Soft and All Weather

>Oak Rosin (the new stiff)

>Old Swedish Rosin in a tall skinny Foil wrap, red color maybe? was over 20 years ago.

>Petz Rosin (used #3 but about 40 years ago, green colored cover)

>Pop's Rosin

>Carlsson's Rosin (someone left a cake, fairly new on my Bow table at the ISB for days and never came back to claim it)

This is what I can remember. The Carlsson's at the moment seems the best. Very sticky at first but the next day or two or three, I just start to play without adding Rosin that it seems I DO need some but after awhile the Bow starts to grab as if I DID just re-Rosin the Bow. Normally I use Kolstein's All Weather. It is softer than the Oak and harder than Pop's when the Pop's is soft so right in the middle I guess.

So, use the above list of possible causes as a check-list and make sure each item is handled on your Bass. Did your Bass ever Bow well with any other String, any other Bow, any other Rosin? Think back. Also, let other try it and see what their thoughts might be. Maybe it will help and maybe not at all but the more people that look the problem over, the easier it may be to find and fix the problem or problems.

[Joel Larsson]

Oh, I have no rosin problem. I could enjoy playing any of the rosins mentioned, I just dislike some of their characteristics. I do this for the fun of it, or else I'd stick with the Oak. In Sweden, Nymans, Carlsson, and Pops are what people play, and when I first ran into some Oak, I decided it was time to look beyond that horizon. It's like trying strings. You may like a set, but you won't know just how much until you try another one!

Plus, rosin is cheaper than strings, but no less exciting.

Just to make things clear, I am still studying, although I have some gigs every now and then. Pöllmann bass - a rather good one, if I may say so - and a great snakewood bow. My first proper bow is in pieces. That one was really good, too, but the current one is better.

(By the way, I think the Carlsson cake I had had been lying around in the violin shop for way too long. I recall no stickiness whatsoever, and it didn't run.)