Best mini cardioid condenser for DB

[Greg Clinkingbeard]

I played Bob Branstetter's bass at a jam session last weekend and thought the sound was very nice. Due to the proximity to the drummer's ride cymbal the mix was less mike and more FC, but he had a really warm, natural tone with plenty of wood and air. The tailpiece mount for the AMT is an install it and forget about it thing. If I had an amp that would take it, and the cash, I would spring for it myself.

[David Powell]

OK, I've had this thing long enough now to comment and I've used it in the worst room (acoustically) that I normally gig in as well as in a few rehearsal situations. I bit the bullet, went the distance, maxed it out as they say, and forked over for the DPA 4021 and it's fancy little shock mount bracket. The worst thing is that I have no direct basis for comparison, except something like a dynamic mic stuck behind the TP or perhaps one of my cheap condensers that needs to be on a boom stand. I almost feel like I should get that Audix, Audio-Technica, or something a lot less expensive to see how much difference in sound there really is so I can confirm what I paid for. I suppose I could A-B it with my MXL 991 on a mic stand just to hear something else, but I am sure these would be worlds apart.

Some of its' "quality" is less tangible and probably not something appreciated on a A-B listening test such as the fine callibration that makes this one of the microphones that is good enough to use for scientific sound measurement purposes (of course when do most players need that?). Then there is the material and quality of construction of the the unit. Even though the wire is very thin, it does not feel flimsy. And the housing has a "heft" for its' size that confirms that it is mostly metal and probably no plastic anywhere in the capsule. And it has better humidity resistance and durability as well as a tolerance for higher sound pressure levels and the nearest to a flat response of anything I've heard. So there might be some quality in the package that is pure durability, and some that is just tighter adherence to performance specifications. The fact that the pre-amp is internal to the housing of such a small capsule would appear to be the main premium feature that separates this from other fine mics like the AMT.

I was looking for a tiny mic I could just plug into a phantom power source and not need an intermediary pre-amp box. I think the DPA is very rare in this respect, if not a bit precious because of it. It really sounds great to my ears. My bass only louder? I don't know if that can be used to describe what comes from a mic. But it is the first time that I felt I was really hearing my instrument amplified well.

Feedback rejection is better than I expected, also. I can stand right in front of my AI combo and at the "just before feedback point", it is just as clean there as behind or off to the side. The worst position for feedback seems to be at about 45 degrees and to one side. On the safe side, I am able to run the channel at about 9:00 o'clock with the master at 12:00 o'clock. If I run the Ampeg 212H cab as extension, a bit out in front of my position, I can use the same gain settings and be much louder and still, no feedback. I am using the notch on the AI, and its' position is room dependent. It is loud enough this way that I don't need to blend in the piezo in most rooms I gig in. I'm thinking a bit of both might actually cut through the mix best so I still have some experimentation to do.

Nothing is perfect of course;- and with the DPA it is a small issue with the very precious mounting gadget. It has a clamp for the afterlength that uses a foam strip sandwich that could be a bit beefier. The foam compresses too easily and the clamp is then subject to slipping. Other than that, the clamp works great and is a pretty finely machined and designed piece of work. One twist loosens the whole mechanism and one twist tightens it. It reminds me of the way the accessories for my Rolleiflex cameras were made;- really hard and precisely machined fine steel. It looks flimsy and under-engineered, but in practice, the metal parts are truly pared down to the minimum structure for a mounting clamp and once it is tightened into place, it is pretty solid. It just needs stiffer foam in the clamp part. I'll probably alter that and put thin cork in place of the foam. This is a bit frustrating because at the price of this mounting rig, DPA should have paid more attention to this. Still, it's the only flaw I could find in an otherwise really nicely made device.

I also want to hear how it records from this close in. Conventional wisdom is that recording is best from some point out in the room, but if close micining can sound good this might be the mic that does it. Live, it sounds so much nicer than a piezo that I will only use the piezo when volume is a big issue. Right now I am just enthralled with the smooth and even response.

[Bob Branstetter]

David - Could you post a photo of the shock mount or a link to a photo. I tried to find one on the net and didn't see anything that looked bass mountable. The specs look good. If it is anything like the AMT, you should experiment locating the mic. What sounds good in your livingroom may not sound good on the job. For me and several others the best sounding spot that produced maximum, usable output was well removed from the ff holes area (at the end of the fingerboard, right on the center seam and almost touching the top). Let us know how it works on jobs with drummers and noise. Since you have an AI Coda, adjusting the mix is pretty easy. The only bad thing is when you have to dial up the piezo, you hear how bad it really sounds compared to the mic.

Are you able to leave the mic on the bass more or less permanently attached? That was my biggest objection to the AMT mic system. After about a half dozen jobs I knew that I had to design something that would eliminate the set up and tearing down on every job. That got old real fast.

[David Powell]

I'll get a photo of it up and how I mount it soon. There's a not so good photo of it here (look in the appications / bass link), but it shows it pointing off toward the f hole and that is not how I am positioning it. The mount allows a good deal of flexibility and swivel and I have it almost dead center just under the bridge with the mount crossing the afterlengths of the A and D strings.

I haven't had time to mess with it yet but there is a separate little wire doo-hickey that has a cork screw at one end and it came with the microphone and was not an accessory extra. Looking at that thing, I think it might be possible to get it up under the Fingerboard extended down toward the bridge. I'm thinking screw the cork screw end into a carefully shaped wine cork, glue (hide glue) the wine cork to the underside of the FB and then I have a mount in that position. The position just under the center of the bridge is working pretty well, but I've seen the position between bridge and fingerboard used by many professionals and I'd like to try that.

It is possible to leave the whole shooting match clamped onto the afterlengths, coil the cord and drop it into the quiver, and pack. The only problem there is that too soft foam that gets compressed and then slides down the strings. I think if I remove the mount after every use, the foam is not such a problem, but it definitely compresses too quickly for leaving it in place. I might replace the foam with cork this afternoon.

[David Powell]

Here's some photos. In the third photo you can see the compressed foam in the clamp mechanism. In general I like the way the mount works, but it just needs stiffer foam.

[Ken Smith]

Originally Posted by David Powell

Here's some photos. In the third photo you can see the compressed foam in the clamp mechanism. In general I like the way the mount works, but it just needs stiffer foam.

Nice looking pickup/mic.. How is the feedback as compared to something like an Underwood or Shadow pickup when played at high volumes or near the amp?

[David Powell]

Ken, the only direct comparison I can make is to my K&K bassmax. Using the Acoustic Image Coda Combo (down-firing 10, forward 5 and tweeter), I can run the K&K at 12:00 o'clock on both the master and the channel gain with no danger of feedback in most situations. I've been able to use the DPA mic alone in a couple of situations where I have previously used the K&K alone, so direct comparison in those rooms is possible. In those rooms I was able to use the DPA with the channel gain at the 9:00 o'clock position with the master at 12:00 o'clock, so the gain is considerably reduced. Of course the "loudness" that is produced is not necessarily the same relation as the channel gain, but it is a pretty good indicator.

To compensate, I used my Ampeg PB 212H cab as an extension on the AI. This increases the efficiency of the head (400W to 500W) and more than doubles the speaker area, so it makes up the difference quite well. I'm not sure why, but adding the extension cab did not decrease the channel gain before feedback. I placed that cab about 90 degrees to my DB off to my right and just slightly forward. The AI was behind me and slightly left. These were pretty close quarters. I did use the notch filter on the AI with the DPA mic. Position of the notch is definitely room dependent. With a concrete floor the notch is at the top of the high frequency range while on a carpeted hollow wooden stage, it was rolled all the way to the bottom end. Also in one room it was better with the bass boosted just slightly on the amp. The other room was OK with flat EQ (the wooden stage).

This approach works really well in a small room and of course sounds much better than the K&K. I was actually very surprised at how good the feedback rejection is on the DPA. It's definitely the best of any cardioid condenser I've tried for anything. It rivals some dynamic CAD vocal mics I have that are as near to feedback proof as any mics I've seen. Unfortunately I haven't tried any of the other miniature condensers.

It seems if it is going to feed back, the position is not too important except if the AI is 45 degrees and in back of the bass. In front, 90 degrees to the side or even directly behind the bass is fine. I was able to move around just as I normally would and didn't feel like a slight side step would set the thing howling, but there is a fine edge to the level, and I have to stay under it. Just a tick beyond that 9:00 o'clock position and all is lost. First it gets that really boomy uncontrollable response and just beyond that, it howls at whatever mid frequency the room supports.

One day we'll have to gather up a bunch of these other mics and test them side by side. I don't know many other players using mics locally. Chris Wood is from here and I see his brother Oliver pretty regularly and we are good friends and I know Chris uses a tiny mic mixed with a Fishman FC. I think it must be the Crown mic that is sometimes supplied with those. He has it mounted in a similar position to what Bob B. describes. On stage he is playing mostly with the Full Circle cranked up. Maybe next time I see those fellows I can egg him into a comparison some way. He's a bit famous you know, but pretty down to earth.

I really do like the fact that the DPA mic as you see it is all there is to it;- no pre-amp or battery box to connect in between. Of course it means you must have a phantom powered system but these days that is almost every house board.

[Bob Branstetter]

Originally Posted by Ken Smith

Nice looking pickup/mic.. How is the feedback as compared to something like an Underwood or Shadow pickup when played at high volumes or near the amp?

Ken - most of us who are using mics with bass amps (as opposed to using the house PA) use the mic mixed with a pickup. I've used an AMT S25B mic and a Fishman Full Circle for about 2 years now. I've never, ever, had any pickup that I thought truly sounds anything like what the bass sounds like when it is recorded with a mic in the studio. By mixing the mic with the pickup, I am able to get a good "acoustic" sound in most situations Feedback will always be a problem with open mics that are near a speaker. The better mics for bass reject feedback and picking up noise like drums and cymbals, but if the volume is loud enough, they will all feedback. By mixing the mic and pickup, you can vary the relative amounts of mic and pickup according to the job you are on. One relatively quiet trio jobs, I mix in more mic and less or no pickup. When high volume is required the mic gets turned down and the pickup goes up. Even a little mic in the mix adds a great deal to the overall sound at higher volume.