Best mini cardioid condenser for DB

[Ken Smith]

Originally Posted by Bob Branstetter

Actually, I was thinking of the muting effect from the mass of the mic & foam rather than the amount of sound radiated by the instrument. However, measuring the relative amount of sound radiated from the back, sides and top is quite easy. A simple $30 Radio Shack ****og volume meter works quite nicely. That's what I use to determine the A0 frequency inside the bass. I bought it originally for setting up my home surround sound system.

Bob, you can ABC my Basses anytime you like. I don't personally buy into that theory mainly because I am clueless about it. Changing strings for me has made more differences than just about any type of adjustments have.

Maybe it also depends on the grade of Bass too. You think?

[Bob Branstetter]

Originally Posted by Ken Smith

Bob, you can ABC my Basses anytime you like. I don't personally buy into that theory mainly because I am clueless about it. Changing strings for me has made more differences than just about any type of adjustments have.

Maybe it also depends on the grade of Bass too. You think?

What theory? That a Radio Shack volume meter will allow you to determine the relative amount of sound coming from the back, front, ribs or any other part of your bass? The only thing I said was the I use it (the Radio Shack ****og volume meter) to determine the A0 frequency (by measuring the volume) inside the bass. No theory here either, just the fact that I find this inexpensive volume meter quite useful for lots of things. It's also a fact, not theory, that I used it to setup my home surround system, which I might add sounded quite good after making the adjustments to the individual spreaker channels.

I assume that you were jumping to a conclusion that this had something to do with A0-B0 matching. No, I gave up trying to convice you of the merits of that and other well documented proceedures that I use a long time ago.

[Ken Smith]

Originally Posted by Bob Branstetter

What theory? That a Radio Shack volume meter will allow you to determine the relative amount of sound coming from the back, front, ribs or any other part of your bass? The only thing I said was the I use it (the Radio Shack ****og volume meter) to determine the A0 frequency (by measuring the volume) inside the bass. No theory here either, just the fact that I find this inexpensive volume meter quite useful for lots of things. It's also a fact, not theory, that I used it to setup my home surround system, which I might add sounded quite good after making the adjustments to the individual speaker channels.

I assume that you were jumping to a conclusion that this had something to do with A0-B0 matching. No, I gave up trying to convince you of the merits of that and other well documented procedures that I use a long time ago.

Ok Bob, sry.. My bad.. I mis-read your Post. For judging the volume of the Top or Back or whatever, I just use my ears. I don't know what measuring them could do if that's how the Bass just is. On the AO/BO thing, I'm more of a 'see it' kinda guy than a 'read about it' person. I need to experience things for myself before I tinker with things. The A-B thing is for another thread some place else on the Forum so we will leave it at that. I know we did this over on TB before but I would welcome the open type discussion of it if you are willing to start it up again over on the Luthiers section here.

[Bob Branstetter]

Originally Posted by Ken Smith

Ok Bob, sry.. My bad.. I mis-read your Post. For judging the volume of the Top or Back or whatever, I just use my ears. I don't know what measuring them could do if that's how the Bass just is. On the AO/BO thing, I'm more of a 'see it' kinda guy than a 'read about it' person. I need to experience things for myself before I tinker with things. The A-B thing is for another thread some place else on the Forum so we will leave it at that. I know we did this over on TB before but I would welcome the open type discussion of it if you are willing to start it up again over on the Luthiers section here.

Thanks for the offer on A0-B0 Ken, but I got my fill of discussing it over on the TalkBass Forum. It was unfortunate that none of the luthiers over there were unwilling to seriously look into it and try it for themselves, preferring to declare it bogus and putting me in an adversary role defending the concept. I can only say that I have used the process successfully on many basses and believe that it is tool that should be in every luthier's shop. After going through that rather unpleasant experience on TalkBass, I made a personal decision that I will not discuss it any longer on any forum or Internet discussion group. However, I am always available to answer legitimate questions from anyone who is truly interested in trying A0-B0 matching by email or PM. I have sent out many copies of my 1996 Michigan Violin Makers Assn Paper on A0-B0 matching in basses to interested individuals as email attachments. The same offer also applies to questions about the Vibration DeDamping process which we briefly touched on in an earlier thread on this forum.

[Ken Smith]

Originally Posted by Bob Branstetter

Thanks for the offer on A0-B0 Ken, but I got my fill of discussing it over on the TalkBass Forum. It was unfortunate that none of the luthiers over there were unwilling to seriously look into it and try it for themselves, preferring to declare it bogus and putting me in an adversary role defending the concept. I can only say that I have used the process successfully on many basses and believe that it is tool that should be in every luthier's shop. After going through that rather unpleasant experience on TalkBass, I made a personal decision that I will not discuss it any longer on any forum or Internet discussion group. However, I am always available to answer legitimate questions from anyone who is truly interested in trying A0-B0 matching by email or PM. I have sent out many copies of my 1996 Michigan Violin Makers Assn Paper on A0-B0 matching in basses to interested individuals as email attachments. The same offer also applies to questions about the Vibration DeDamping process which we briefly touched on in an earlier thread on this forum.

Ok, on that note, I would like to have one of each for my reading and files. I am sure there is something to gain there if one makes the effort. I on the other hand have been fortunate enough to choose Basses that need very little help other then the obvious repairs needed. Maybe I have done some matching on my own but didn't know I was doing it. I have set-up and improved quite a few basses in my time going by just feel. It would be good to see this in print. Maybe some others here would try this and discuss their results and that way we could have an A/B forum that you might, just might visit on occasion and give a shout once in a while.. That would be nice.

[Gareth Hughes]

What is AO-BO and the difference related to? I gather that it's to do with volume output, but can you give us a layman's interpretation?

[David Powell]

Originally Posted by Gareth Hughes

What is AO-BO and the difference related to? I gather that it's to do with volume output, but can you give us a layman's interpretation?

Gareth, I will attempt to clear up the confusion, however, I am not as well versed in the terminology or methodology of resonance matching of A zero and B zero as Mr. Branstetter.

This terminology describes nothing to do with microphones' volume output but rather refers to resonance characteristics of stringed instruments which can be determined using microphones as tools in the measuring or determination of these values. The discussion deserves a thread of its' own, which Mr. Branstetter has declined. More information can be found in the published studies of Carleen Hutchins. I think A Zero is the Helmholz frequency or the cavity resonance and B zero is the lowest frequency that the neck and fingerboard and scroll assembly vibrate at. A zero can't easily be adjusted once an instrument is built. But it can be determined by a few methods. Once determined, the B zero frequency can be adjusted by adding or subtracting weight from the fingerboard or scroll to match the A zero frequency or a partial or harmonically related frequency. The desired result is a more responsive instrument.

We now return you to our regularly broadcast discussion of miniature condenser microphones and the application of these to double bass amplification ......

[Bob Branstetter]

Originally Posted by Gareth Hughes

What is AO-BO and the difference related to? I gather that it's to do with volume output, but can you give us a layman's interpretation?

If you do a Google search of "Carleen Hutchins A0-B0", you'll get several references including some of the discussion that occurred on TalkBass.

David - Please note that her name is Carleen M. Hutchins, not Charlene. The last time I heard her speak, she was over 90 years old and still one of the most amazing women I've ever met.