Gut strings Rock!!

[davidseidel]

Yes Ken exactly what I was thinking. Pirastro kindly sent me the regular set to try as well - as mentioned I do like them but not sure what gauges they exactly are, anyway the D and E seem especially too thick. I looked up the gauges of dlugolecki and he has a converter there. The figures Carlos gives are pretty much the middle of DD's range which he refers to as not too heavy not too light. The equivalents in his sizing are G - 43 D - 54 A - 51 E - 63

[Adrian Juras]

I had to dig up this thread(since I have just joined partially), because this subject has been something I have really been on the fence about throughout my playing from almost the start. There is NOTHING like the sound of a bass with gut strings across the board, into a mic. I don't think you can get either the sound or more importantly the "feel" or same pulse with steel strings. The response is totally different. However, there is something to be said for the clean, sustaining, and lyrical quality of steel strings in the upper register for soloing. I don't know... sometimes I can tolerate playing with gut strings and no amp, but when the leader calls over for me to turn up, or we have a noisy crowd, it can be a drag.

[Andreas Henningsson]

So, now I've played guts for a while and I love it! Feels like I'm home. The only problem right now is that I got a regular Chorda E on and it's damn thick... I like the sound of it (well the sound I can get...) but I have to practice more with it. I understand why your special Chorda is lighter in gauge, Carlos! Before I got the Chorda I had a Garbo E which blends great with the guts, but it's just not gut...

[Joel Larsson]

Oh but come on, Andreas. You're just not man enough to play that thick E! People have played spun gut for many hundreds of years. It's nothing to be ashamed about. But don't put your Garbo back before I can come over and test drive your chorda.

[Andreas Henningsson]

Originally Posted by Joel Larsson

Oh but come on, Andreas. You're just not man enough to play that thick E! People have played spun gut for many hundreds of years. It's nothing to be ashamed about. But don't put your Garbo back before I can come over and test drive your chorda.

Don't you worry Joel! A thinner wound gut E is on its way! But I will keep the Chorda for a while. It's starting sound and feel pretty good.

[Anselm Hauke]

here is a great video from the aquila string factory

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2_Cwe...e=channel_page

very interesting: they talk about a small village in italy where many great stringmaker-families come from: d´addario, pirastro, savarez, la bella, galli etc.

[Ken Smith]

I have since tried them and moved on (the Carlos set!). I played Gut in High School and should have left it at that. For the playing I do which these days is mostly Orchestral, I prefer steels like Flexocor or Belcantos, period!

As a matter of fact, I got this Hawkes Bass recently (Carlos knows the bass.. lol) and the first thing I did was take the Guts off and put on some Flexocors.

So if Gut strings rock that's just fine. I don't play Rock!

[Calvin Marks]

I agree that there is a special sound and feel of playing on real gut strings. I'm talking about plain gut BTW not wound gut like Eudoxa or Oliv. If you're playing jazz then I couldn't imagine playing on anything but gut but for orchestral playing plain gut just doesn't work.

[Ken Smith]

Originally Posted by Calvin Marks

I agree that there is a special sound and feel of playing on real gut strings. I'm talking about plain gut BTW not wound gut like Eudoxa or Oliv. If you're playing jazz then I couldn't imagine playing on anything but gut but for orchestral playing plain gut just doesn't work.

Really? If you played Jazz and had to push a Band or Big Band or played solos you would see soon why Ray Brown, Milt Hinton, Sam Jones and just about every player I have known CHANGED to Steels..

Audibly, the Guts are too slow and they make you play harder to hear yourself. I see no need at all to play guts at all unless you are playing period music. Even then, any good old bass with bowing steels will sound just about as good in my opinion.

I have played Vivaldi, Bach, Hayden and Mozart concerts mainly with one Bass and two Cellos (Chamber-like) and they loved my sound. Bowing Steels all the way with an old English or Italian bass. No one mentioned after first hearing me that I needed Gut, NO one!

Is that Period enough or we need to go earlier?

Maybe you Gut seekers just need an Older bass, you think?

[Phil Maneri]

Originally Posted by Ken Smith

Maybe you Gut seekers just need an Older bass, you think?

Hah! That's funny. And probably true I think. That's what I needed.

[Nathan Parker]

Well, in contrast to the latest consensus that has been formed, gut is where it's at for me.

Ken was generous enough to trade me his broken in set of Carlos Henriquez Pirastro Chorda strings for a broken in set of Spirocores. I don't know if I will ever go back. I've switched to the regular Chorda's now, but might go back to the C.H. diameters, as that regular Chorda E string is quite the monster. Great sound, but it ain't easy to play.

The things I really enjoy about gut strings is the tone and the feel. The sound is so unique and it seems to be impossible to replicate. It is very warm and full to my ears, but it also has a blunt and un-complex quality that I like very much. It's almost as if the bass is more akin to a timpani than a violin or cello. And, the feel and tension are quite the delight. Pizzicato, there seems to be a larger palate of tonal color, which can be changed by variations in right hand position and pulling technique. Lastly, the lower tension allows me to raise the string height and still play without pain, which means more volume for me. I have taken to playing without an amp lately, so that is definitely a help.

I know there are downsides to the gut strings, but for me and my needs, the pros outweigh the cons.

[Ken Smith]

I think in some styles and for some players they work best. I had a set of Labella gut in a bass a few years ago and they were fun for pizz on the bass I had them on but after one Orchestra rehearsal they came off. They just didn't blend well.

I like all things bass to be smooth. Gut to me under my ear just isn't!

[Calvin Marks]

Originally Posted by Ken Smith

I have played Vivaldi, Bach, Hayden and Mozart concerts mainly with one Bass and two Cellos (Chamber-like) and they loved my sound. Bowing Steels all the way with an old English or Italian bass. No one mentioned after first hearing me that I needed Gut, NO one!
?

Ken, there's a difference between playing Baroque and Classical music in a modern settings versus in a period setting - completely different context. There's no such thing as period music without gut strings, just like there's no such thing as modern orchestral music without metal strings (I consider Olivs and Eudoxa to be metal strings). Metal isn't better than Gut, they're just different and one may not be appropriate for certain types of music...If you showed up to a TRUE period gig with metal strings you'd be asked to leave.

[Calvin Marks]

I should also mention that gut is way easier on the left hand as they're much lower in tension and softer so you don't have to press down as hard.

[Ken Smith]

Originally Posted by Charles Stark

I should also mention that gut is way easier on the left hand as they're much lower in tension and softer so you don't have to press down as hard.

Well I did play on Guts all thru High school but what do I know?

Aside from all this 'purity' talk, if you are trying to play bass professionally today for the most part, Gut's will not get you there. Even with a better bass, you need the best strings to match that your Bass actually likes.

Just my opinion ..

[Ken Smith]

Originally Posted by Charles Stark

Ken, there's a difference between playing Baroque and Classical music in a modern settings versus in a period setting - completely different context. There's no such thing as period music without gut strings, just like there's no such thing as modern orchestral music without metal strings (I consider Olivs and Eudoxa to be metal strings). Metal isn't better than Gut, they're just different and one may not be appropriate for certain types of music...If you showed up to a TRUE period gig with metal strings you'd be asked to leave.

Thank's for the lesson old timer..

[Calvin Marks]

Originally Posted by Ken Smith

Thank's for the lesson old timer..

Playing experience has nothing to do with age - wisdom does, and that is why I'm not wise yet! I speak zee truth!

I'm not suggesting we all try and replicate the same sound as Domenico Dragonetti, we can leave that up to John Feeney .

But in all seriousness, gut strings do "rock", and they're definitely under appreciated. Unfortunately I think their high price is the biggest deterrent for most serious players.

[Mark Stefaniw]

Originally Posted by Ken Smith

Really? If you played Jazz and had to push a Band or Big Band or played solos you would see soon why Ray Brown, Milt Hinton, Sam Jones and just about every player I have known CHANGED to Steels..

Audibly, the Guts are too slow and they make you play harder to hear yourself. I see no need at all to play guts at all unless you are playing period music. Even then, any good old bass with bowing steels will sound just about as good in my opinion.

I have played Vivaldi, Bach, Hayden and Mozart concerts mainly with one Bass and two Cellos (Chamber-like) and they loved my sound. Bowing Steels all the way with an old English or Italian bass. No one mentioned after first hearing me that I needed Gut, NO one!

Is that Period enough or we need to go earlier?

Maybe you Gut seekers just need an Older bass, you think?

Geez -- lighten up man! No one doubts that we can play period music successfully (i.e. get by IMO) on steel strings with a tourte bow. If you are serious about studying early music, you absolutley must consider a gut setup -- that's just a fact that comes with the territory. It is magical when the entire string ensemble is on a gut setup.

Check out this (click here) beautiful period performance on Viennese tuned gut violone -- frets and all. I've always wanted to study period music on a period/replica setup like that. Can you imagine the fun tuning the viola d'amore? Closest I've gotton so far to period setup is to fiddle with Viennese tuning (A-D-F#-A) on my modern double bass with steel strings ... inspired by Edicson Ruiz's Vanhal performance setup (click here). Edicson went to London to study Viennese tuning with Chi-chi Nwanoku (click here). Chi-chi spends most of her time on a Viennese gut setup ... I am envious of her career.