Ken's Corner (Bass Forums Sponsored By KSB)

Go Back   Ken's Corner (Bass Forums Sponsored By KSB) > Welcome To SmithBassForums

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 11-22-2008, 04:06 PM
Ken Smith's Avatar
Ken Smith Ken Smith is offline
Bassist, Luthier & Admin
 
Join Date: 01-18-2007
Location: Perkasie, PA
Posts: 4,863
Ken Smith is on a distinguished road
Cool Did I?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Braun View Post
Did you have any role in the development of the 6 string bass? I know yours was one of the firsts.
Yes, most of the knowledgeable world of BGs (hopefully) knows that we made the first wide spaced non 0ne-off 6-string Bass. There is a book called "The bass Book" published in 1995 written by Tony Bacon where it is stated on pg.59 "Ex-Professional bassist turned luthier Smith was among the pioneers of the modern multi-stringed bass with wide string-spacing and low-B tuning". This is the caption under a picture of a Smith 6-string bass.

We made our first 6 for Anthony Jackson on 1981. There was very little if anything to go on as far as what to do or what to design. The only other one I had seen was the previous attempt for Anthony by Carl Thompson. I asked Anthony to show it to me so I could see what was wrong with the one he had. That look was mainly a 'what not to do' lesson. I say this without any disrespect towards Carl as we were at one time good friends.

Who did what first and where? Your guess is as good as mine. I am sure who invented electricity or anything else can always be disputed in some way. I am just saying that I had basically no examples at all to copy from. Just my playing skills and my instrument design ideas to make a working playable 6-string. Back there, there were no Parts companies to call up and order from. The Bridges and Pickups needed to be designed and made from scratch, custom ordered from people themselves that were not even sure what would work. It was an uphill struggle, but now.. we are here.

I do feel in a way that modern builders walk on a road paved partially be me and others like me that wanted to make something that before hand didn't exist.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim Bishop View Post
Very impressive, Ken.

So, with the end of the 70's approaching, what was the influence or intrigue that led you to building EB's?
Ok, this might be awhile but I will keep it short for now and elaborate as we go on here.

In 1973 I bought a fine old 18th century Italian Bass. It was the best Bass I had ever played. Imagine playing up the low E string. After a few notes it becomes uneven and wolfy sounding. This bass could be be bowed from the Nut to the end of the Fingerboard over two octaves up and not a single bad note. Also, it bowed great with Spirocores and that in itself is odd because those strings are not easy to bow. They are great jazz strings but most players then used Flexocor for bowing, not Spirocores. This Bass was a monster and I was curious to find out how much an Electric Bass could be improved from its standard cardboard box with strings in comparison. Most people in NY played a Fender. Most Fenders had dead spots on the G string around the Bb to the Eb. Usually one note was the worst and one or two on either side of it. It was on the 'D' on one of the Basses I had. When ever I needed to play a long help note, I would play 'that' D on the D-string octave to make it ring out somewhat. This being only of of many point in comparing a stock or customized Fender bass to the DB that I had.

My goal was to make an Electric bass that could stand along side my DB and be equal within its own merits as far as sound quality went. It looked to me as if the Guitar industry was geared towards fast cheap 'accountant' planned costing within its manufacturing. I was thinking more along the lines of a hand made Violin.

My idea and desire for an Electric Bass was not part of the current industry. Yes, there were custom and private builders out there BUT, had the played my Italian Bass or knew what a Violin was or how to incorporate there grandfather string instrument methods and results into their stringed amplified carcass?

I wanted a Bass that had 'no' excuses attached to it in its making or performance. One night while playing the proto-type bass (made c.'76/77) in the Pit at 'Westbury Music Fair' for Shirley Bassey, the lead Trumpet player tells me my bass sounds great and that they listen to me for the 'pitch'. Years earlier, I worked with this same guy for a year in a B'way pit on my first B'way show gig and complaints were they daily dosage back then about the Bass being too loud usually, not compliments. You know, the Trumpets NEVER play on the beat..lol

After hearing a Trumpet player tell me he used my Pitch to play, I knew I was on the right track design wise.

Trust me, as I mentioned above, this IS the short version of the answer..lol

How long will it take to post 40 years of 'Bass' experience?
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 11-24-2008, 11:14 AM
Bob Faulkner's Avatar
Bob Faulkner Bob Faulkner is offline
Senior Posting Member
 
Join Date: 01-22-2007
Location: Atlanta
Posts: 282
Bob Faulkner is on a distinguished road
Default

Can you expand on the concepts and techniques from the building of traditional acoustic string instruments that you incorporated in your bass designs, and what made you lean specifically in those directions?
__________________
Proud original owner of a 2001 Ken Smith BSR4EG lined fretless.

My band's site:
Delusional Mind
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 11-24-2008, 11:23 AM
Ken Smith's Avatar
Ken Smith Ken Smith is offline
Bassist, Luthier & Admin
 
Join Date: 01-18-2007
Location: Perkasie, PA
Posts: 4,863
Ken Smith is on a distinguished road
Question Humm..

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Faulkner View Post
Can you expand on the concepts and techniques from the building of traditional acoustic string instruments that you incorporated in your bass designs, and what made you lean specifically in those directions?
Well, what exactly do you mean by "traditional acoustic string instruments"?
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 11-24-2008, 12:02 PM
Bob Faulkner's Avatar
Bob Faulkner Bob Faulkner is offline
Senior Posting Member
 
Join Date: 01-22-2007
Location: Atlanta
Posts: 282
Bob Faulkner is on a distinguished road
Default

you mentioned double bass and violin as part of your inspiration in one of the posts above. I was wanting some expansion on the building techniques of those instruments that you found attractive, and how you used them to improve the bass guitar.
__________________
Proud original owner of a 2001 Ken Smith BSR4EG lined fretless.

My band's site:
Delusional Mind
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 11-24-2008, 02:11 PM
Ken Smith's Avatar
Ken Smith Ken Smith is offline
Bassist, Luthier & Admin
 
Join Date: 01-18-2007
Location: Perkasie, PA
Posts: 4,863
Ken Smith is on a distinguished road
Cool oh..

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Faulkner View Post
you mentioned double bass and violin as part of your inspiration in one of the posts above. I was wanting some expansion on the building techniques of those instruments that you found attractive, and how you used them to improve the bass guitar.
Oh, ok. I'll do my best to explain my original dream and theory as well as application.

The Smith Basses were designed for feel and tone first. The hardware and electronics came later. My goal was to try and archive a smooth even vibrating string on every string, every note. I felt that the current slew or basses on the market were produced for a price point and not for the quality or rather acoustical level that I was searching for. By luck, you could pick up a fender on occasion and the notes (most of them) might ring well for some things but playing a slow ballad melody with some upper long notes, the sustain would fail and the tone was not the best, It was still a fender. I am not trying to knock Fender here at all. I am just using it as a comparison based on my personal experience.

Often in a recording, the standard Fender is just what people are used to hearing. For me, I was looking to get as close to the comparable quality to my Italian DB as compared to a factory made German imported Juzek bass. The Juzek might be ok in a School orchestra or on a jazz gig with an amp but in a professional Orchestra, it is just not on par with the great old English and Italian master grade basses. I was looking to make THE Master Grade Electric bass.

Things I looked into changing at first was the actual neck construction and wood grain orientation. Exotic wood feature strips were added for looks and stability. The theory was that a bad piece of wood may want to bend away from the others but in itself would not be strong enough to pull the others with it. Some other companies were already doing this but I cannot mention their names, sorry. I also know that these other companies were not known for their great necks as some of them incorporated 2 truss rods for better adjustability. My theory is to keep it simple but build it so it wont fail. Bass player wanna play, not fix. Giving them 2 truss rods to adjust might be more harm then help knowing that often its a do-it-yourself mindset.

On the body, I was not convinced that what companied did up until the time I started were thinking about tone and vibration as far as mixing with the neck. Soft bodies and hard necks might have frequencies that cancel each other out. Bold-on product on the market at that time was mainly high volume production. The neck and body parts were not specifically made to perfectly fit one another so there was some lever of acceptable 'slop' in the fit.

These are just a few things that made up the 'average' mindset of a high volume guitar production. Also, I believe that the 'built it from the price backwards' mentality although wise in general marketing, does not make a Stradivarius.

Trial and well.. more trial (don't think I had many errors) was the method of operation for me. This by the way is still going on after 400+ years of double Bass making.

So, open mind, open ears, open wallet. Yes.. it does get expensive trying to be inventive and/or creative.

Please feel free to nit-pick any of my answers if they do not fully quench your thirst. Also, if I've left something out, please remind me.

One more explanation to the question of 'building techniques'. I tried in the beginning to move away from what was being done already if it didn't look right as far as the 'right' or 'better' way so to speak. Each individual component must be made to it's fullest potential in order to work as a 'marriage' on a musical instrument. Price was never am initial concern as I didn't come from a business type or financial background. It was a consideration but not that the expense of the quality of the bass.

Remember now, I started tinkering in 1976 or so with this idea in my head when I was a full time professional Bassist in NYC. This was a personal goal of mine, not a business plan. It turned out that way and very very gradually. Nothing came fast with the exception of a good feel which was on Bass #1 and so on...
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 11-27-2008, 12:36 AM
Mike Braun Mike Braun is offline
Junior Posting Member
 
Join Date: 09-23-2008
Location: Nelson
Posts: 18
Mike Braun is on a distinguished road
Default

Hey Ken,

Can you please give us some information on the development of the pickups, electronics, and pickup placement?
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 11-27-2008, 01:50 AM
Ken Smith's Avatar
Ken Smith Ken Smith is offline
Bassist, Luthier & Admin
 
Join Date: 01-18-2007
Location: Perkasie, PA
Posts: 4,863
Ken Smith is on a distinguished road
Cool some information?.. only?...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Braun View Post
Hey Ken,

Can you please give us some information on the development of the pickups, electronics, and pickup placement?
This is actually 3 separate answers as far as how things happened. I will be relatively brief for now and go deeper into it later if asked.

The Electronics in the Basses now are not at all what I originally intended. It was suggested to me in the beginning to go simpler like a Bass/Treble circuit other than the original big circuit like on 3 of the Basses we made for Stanley Clarke but I wanted what was in my head at the time.

The first BTs were started in 1981 with 4 knobs and some switches. These wend thru a few changes. In 1986 we did the concentric BT and made it for sale as a replacement for Fender type basses with some modifications needed but it would fit most. Then in 1993 we did the 4k-knob again but with an addable mid 5th knob. A few years ago we modified that and re-designed it to the current unit we have now.

On all the circuits from the first BT 4-knob to the Concentric and onwards I had played around with the Treble frequency center point as well as the shelf of the bass control. Mind you, the Amps we have today were not around in 1981 so the studio was about as close as you could get to hear the full range of the bass with they full range playback speakers.

The Pickups were also an idea in my head that took 3 years to get to and stayed there ever since the first Soapbars were completed in 1981. I personally made the first wooden casting molds out of Curly/Tiger Maple in my Brooklyn shop. The pickups we have now and since then is the sound in my head.

Placement... ok.. this was not as planned but it did come about unintentionally.

The first 20 pickups after a proto-type were all made by Bill Lawrence. Bill made a wooden cover for the first one and we made the other 20 in the shop. Then I ordered 60 more pickups and had some covers waiting. These were different. Bill had changed his tooling and didn't tell me. These used plastic mounting rings like a guitar pickup.

On one BT we made in 1981 the customer asked that we put the pickups as far back as possible towards the bridge. We did so and the mounting rings were almost touching each other. In a year of so he traded up and I took that bass back. Now though I had the new Soapbar and wanted to upgrade this earlier bass. We were able to re-route a slightly larger cur for the new pickup to fit and just barely routed away all the screw holes from the mounting rings. Now the pickups were further back towards the bridge with about 2 fingers of space between them, like they are now.

Maybe it was that bass, or that bass with there pickups or the placement or the re-build and re-firb of an older broken in bass.. something.. BUT, that bass was smoking.. I made the decision then that this would be the new pickup spacing.. Why? Because I liked it. No R&D.. just my gut feeling and some R&B actually..

That's in in a nutshell..
Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 2 (0 members and 2 guests)
 

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 09:20 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2025, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © 2007 - Ken Smith Basses, LTD. (All Rights Reserved)