Thinning a thick ?

[Thomas Erickson]

I've wondered from time to time - with graphite in the neck, what happens when the bass takes a hit that otherwise would have broken the neck? What's the next-in-line for destruction?

As for thinning a neck - I think it's most often done when people think a smaller neck will somehow be easier to play or more suitable for a small person. IMO in most cases it's just a technique issue and the instrument is the scapegoat.

[Ken Smith]

Originally Posted by Thomas Erickson

I've wondered from time to time - with graphite in the neck, what happens when the bass takes a hit that otherwise would have broken the neck? What's the next-in-line for destruction?

As for thinning a neck - I think it's most often done when people think a smaller neck will somehow be easier to play or more suitable for a small person. IMO in most cases it's just a technique issue and the instrument is the scapegoat.

A bass neck usually breaks at its weakest point. That would be just under the scroll at the end of the fingerboard for the most part. Graphite wont help as it's IN the neck and not at the break point.

On thin necks, we have to look at playing the bass and not gripping it like a bat. Thinner necks are weaker. They bend forward from the string pull and pull the fingerboard with it creating the effect of extra camber under the strings when in fact it's really a weak neck. Extra camber makes the string tension feel tighter and harder to play. In this case, a stronger and thicker neck would be easier to play because it bends less and holds its intended camber better. The graphite allows you to have a normal thicknesses neck but stiffer in resistance. Remember, to put graphite in, you have to take wood out.

I started putting graphite in the Smith basses in 1980. Having played thousands of thinner/longer/weaker Electric basses in my shop with graphite inlaid neck I can tell you what it does. We/I also have a special technique of putting it in which I cannot share. Also, our rods are custom
made to order and not off the shelf of from a catalog.

Graphite CF will help a well made neck. In our usage, it is not intended to correct bad neck, only improve a good one.

[Thomas Erickson]

Originally Posted by Ken Smith

A bass neck usually breaks at its weakest point. That would be just under the scroll at the end of the fingerboard for the most part. Graphite wont help as it's IN the neck and not at the break point.

The two basses that I have seen that received a hit (after a rod was installed) enough to do damage, one the neck had a small crack, the other came loose at the button and on the sides of the heel slightly-both were very minor repairs.

Seems to me like in the case of a good strong neck joint then that the brunt of an impact is going to be focused on the point of the neck where it's already weakest. Does anybody think that maybe a neck without graphite, one that can absorb and evenly distribute shock, might actually be safer in the case of an otherwise well made and healthy bass?

And as for the stiffness, if the neck is thick enough, isn't it going to be stiff enough to not deflect under tension

I don't mean to be negative about it or anything, I just tend to have my doubts about graphite being able to improve a nice thick neck made from good maple; I can certainly see how it would be nice in a bass guitar neck though!

[Ken Smith]

Originally Posted by Thomas Erickson

Seems to me like in the case of a good strong neck joint then that the brunt of an impact is going to be focused on the point of the neck where it's already weakest. Does anybody think that maybe a neck without graphite, one that can absorb and evenly distribute shock, might actually be safer in the case of an otherwise well made and healthy bass?

And as for the stiffness, if the neck is thick enough, isn't it going to be stiff enough to not deflect under tension

I don't mean to be negative about it or anything, I just tend to have my doubts about graphite being able to improve a nice thick neck made from good maple; I can certainly see how it would be nice in a bass guitar neck though!

If you ever experienced the exact same bass before and after having the Graphite rod/s put in you might have a different viewpoint.

Several of my Double basses that now have CF graphite rods in them didn't before and now they do. Making or leaving a neck thicker or too thick to play comfortably just to keep it strong is the not the way to go in my opinion.

There is more than one kind and one grade within each method of making these rods. There is also more then one way to install them. Not all Graphite is created equal. Not all neck mods with graphite are equal between luthiers either.

I discuss the method of putting the Rods in with the few lutheirs that do this and on my basses, they are done just about the same way I would do it.

I prefer the Graphite rods in all my new or restored necks and I have had quite a few pass thru my inventory in the last few years.

On what's best for shock when you bang your bass, nothing. Don't bang the bass!

[Thomas Erickson]

Originally Posted by Ken Smith

If you ever experienced the exact same bass before and after having the Graphite rod/s put in you might have a different viewpoint.

Several of my Double basses that now have CF graphite rods in them didn't before and now they do. Making or leaving a neck thicker or too thick to play comfortably just to keep it strong is the not the way to go in my opinion.

There is more than one kind and one grade within each method of making these rods. There is also more then one way to install them. Not all Graphite is created equal. Not all neck mods with graphite are equal between luthiers either.

I discuss the method of putting the Rods in with the few lutheirs that do this and on my basses, they are done just about the same way I would do it.

I prefer the Graphite rods in all my new or restored necks and I have had quite a few pass thru my inventory in the last few years.

On what's best for shock when you bang your bass, nothing. Don't bang the bass!

I'll take your word that the graphite make a tonal improvement, since as you say, I haven't had the chance to compare a bass before/after the modification.

So you're of the opinion that in order to make a wood neck structurally sound, it has to be too thick in terms of playability? And also that it isn't then an issue of technique on the player's part? For the majority of my years playing I've worked to drive my left hand with everything but the thumb, which I think most will agree is the logical and healthy approach, and I find that the thickness of a neck had little impact on the playability of a bass. On the other hand, I find a particular, distinct lack of tone and response in thin-necked bass that worsens as the necks get thinner, and also that thin necks are rather fatiguing to play for long periods.

As for not banging the bass... well, maybe that works for the player who never takes the instrument out of the house, but last I check most "working" bass get beat pretty well. And a broken bass means no pay+repair bill...

[Ken Smith]

Originally Posted by Thomas Erickson

I'll take your word that the graphite make a tonal improvement, since as you say, I haven't had the chance to compare a bass before/after the modification.

So you're of the opinion that in order to make a wood neck structurally sound, it has to be too thick in terms of playability? And also that it isn't then an issue of technique on the player's part? ...........

No, that's not exactly what I said. I said (I think) that making a neck thich FOR stability is not the best way and too thick can be harder to play.

How many species or varieties of maple Neck woods have you felt on basses?

Some are harder than others. Some are too soft period. Thin fingerboards are often either the sign of a weak neck that needed dressing after dressing from the neck warping under it or will allow the neck to forward bow over time.

I have had and do have basses with necks that are thicker than I personally like. Unless it's my personal 'not for sale' bass, I leave it alone if it's within the guidelines. If too thick period, it will be carved down to a normal size neck.

[Thomas Erickson]

Got it!

I don't think there's anything wrong with shaping a neck to suit one's preference, since it's not such an integral part of the instrument; same for adding graphite or whatever. My only concern, really, is with the addition of graphite increasing the odds of major damage to the top block etc. when (not if) the bass sustains trauma... Even if it's more likely that the neck breaks at the top, well, again, it's still just a neck.