Best mini cardioid condenser for DB

[Ken Smith]

Originally Posted by Bob Branstetter

That's true to a certain extent, but it is the Top that generates most of sound. I don't touch the top when I'm playing - do you? I don't know if you are deaden it more today than you did 30 years ago, but it's pretty certain that your ears aren't as good as they were 30 years ago. I know mine aren't, so I can't afford to throw away any sound when there is a way to prevent it.

I agree with you on the Top thing to a point but when listening to Basses I often hear more sound on some of them from the Back than from the Top standing close to the Bass.

I think that some Basses can be dampened more easily as they may have less sound to put out to begin with. On the other hand, many of the Basses I have are so powerful in comparison, I rarely hear the other Basses around me in the section. In that case, even if objects do dampen the Bass, it is no great loss to be noticed.

[David Powell]

I suppose it might be worth mentioning that since I have improved the amplification method for my double bass, I think the only use for something like a EUB at this point would be for airline travel. I suppose it may take a while to confirm that, perhaps a few more outdoor shows. I have another one coming up at the end of the month. And even the best amp and mic combination is a good deal less $$ than a Clevinger and I get to use the same DB.

I have to agree with Ken as far as a great deal of sound coming from the back of the bass. In a standing situation I can really feel the back of the bass reverberating rather strongly while I play. The effect I observed and described in another thread which involves "early room reflections" while playing with my back to a wall also suggests that the back of the bass contributes substantially to the sound. I have often thought that my body dampens the sound more than anything else could although probably not as much as Ken's.

However, it is plausible that anything that dampens the bridge, the strings, or the afterlengths could have a greater effect because these precede the body vibrating and something that dampens these would decrease the energy flowing to the body of the bass, before it gets there.

It would be interesting to put a mic on the back of the bass and see how much signal we might get and what the differences are. I know very careful mic'ing of drums in the studio often involves two mics to produce something closer to the live sound of the drum. It might be interesting to mic a bass from in front and in back. Hopefully there wouldn't be any phase cancellation.

[Ken Smith]

Originally Posted by David Powell

I have often thought that my body dampens the sound more than anything else could although probably not as much as Ken's.

Yo, it's all in the technique.

Originally Posted by David Powell

It would be interesting to put a mic on the back of the bass and see how much signal we might get and what the differences are. It might be interesting to mic a bass from in front and in back. Hopefully there wouldn't be any phase cancellation.

I think I have tried a Mic in the Back at one time and it was a boomier, less direct type of sound. I don't know if any phase cancellation would happen and/or why it would or would not. It would probably just be the same as if the Bass is just louder as far as any Wolfs or Note Cancellations.

[Eric Hochberg]

I was involved in a bass mikng technique class for live sound engineering students a few years ago as the demonstrator. I don't recall any real details about the mics used, but the instructor hung one of the mics from behind my bass, over the scroll, and got a wonderful, natural sound through the system. I had never seen that technique used before or since, but I imagine that unless you were playing solo, that mic would pick up every thing else on stage.

[Bob Branstetter]

Originally Posted by Ken Smith

I agree with you on the Top thing to a point but when listening to Basses I often hear more sound on some of them from the Back than from the Top standing close to the Bass.

I think that some Basses can be dampened more easily as they may have less sound to put out to begin with. On the other hand, many of the Basses I have are so powerful in comparison, I rarely hear the other Basses around me in the section. In that case, even if objects do dampen the Bass, it is no great loss to be noticed.

Actually, I was thinking of the muting effect from the mass of the mic & foam rather than the amount of sound radiated by the instrument. However, measuring the relative amount of sound radiated from the back, sides and top is quite easy. A simple $30 Radio Shack ****og volume meter works quite nicely. That's what I use to determine the A0 frequency inside the bass. I bought it originally for setting up my home surround sound system.

[Ken Smith]

Originally Posted by Bob Branstetter

Actually, I was thinking of the muting effect from the mass of the mic & foam rather than the amount of sound radiated by the instrument. However, measuring the relative amount of sound radiated from the back, sides and top is quite easy. A simple $30 Radio Shack ****og volume meter works quite nicely. That's what I use to determine the A0 frequency inside the bass. I bought it originally for setting up my home surround sound system.

Bob, you can ABC my Basses anytime you like. I don't personally buy into that theory mainly because I am clueless about it. Changing strings for me has made more differences than just about any type of adjustments have.

Maybe it also depends on the grade of Bass too. You think?

[Bob Branstetter]

Originally Posted by Ken Smith

Bob, you can ABC my Basses anytime you like. I don't personally buy into that theory mainly because I am clueless about it. Changing strings for me has made more differences than just about any type of adjustments have.

Maybe it also depends on the grade of Bass too. You think?

What theory? That a Radio Shack volume meter will allow you to determine the relative amount of sound coming from the back, front, ribs or any other part of your bass? The only thing I said was the I use it (the Radio Shack ****og volume meter) to determine the A0 frequency (by measuring the volume) inside the bass. No theory here either, just the fact that I find this inexpensive volume meter quite useful for lots of things. It's also a fact, not theory, that I used it to setup my home surround system, which I might add sounded quite good after making the adjustments to the individual spreaker channels.

I assume that you were jumping to a conclusion that this had something to do with A0-B0 matching. No, I gave up trying to convice you of the merits of that and other well documented proceedures that I use a long time ago.

[Ken Smith]

Originally Posted by Bob Branstetter

What theory? That a Radio Shack volume meter will allow you to determine the relative amount of sound coming from the back, front, ribs or any other part of your bass? The only thing I said was the I use it (the Radio Shack ****og volume meter) to determine the A0 frequency (by measuring the volume) inside the bass. No theory here either, just the fact that I find this inexpensive volume meter quite useful for lots of things. It's also a fact, not theory, that I used it to setup my home surround system, which I might add sounded quite good after making the adjustments to the individual speaker channels.

I assume that you were jumping to a conclusion that this had something to do with A0-B0 matching. No, I gave up trying to convince you of the merits of that and other well documented procedures that I use a long time ago.

Ok Bob, sry.. My bad.. I mis-read your Post. For judging the volume of the Top or Back or whatever, I just use my ears. I don't know what measuring them could do if that's how the Bass just is. On the AO/BO thing, I'm more of a 'see it' kinda guy than a 'read about it' person. I need to experience things for myself before I tinker with things. The A-B thing is for another thread some place else on the Forum so we will leave it at that. I know we did this over on TB before but I would welcome the open type discussion of it if you are willing to start it up again over on the Luthiers section here.

[Bob Branstetter]

Originally Posted by Ken Smith

Ok Bob, sry.. My bad.. I mis-read your Post. For judging the volume of the Top or Back or whatever, I just use my ears. I don't know what measuring them could do if that's how the Bass just is. On the AO/BO thing, I'm more of a 'see it' kinda guy than a 'read about it' person. I need to experience things for myself before I tinker with things. The A-B thing is for another thread some place else on the Forum so we will leave it at that. I know we did this over on TB before but I would welcome the open type discussion of it if you are willing to start it up again over on the Luthiers section here.

Thanks for the offer on A0-B0 Ken, but I got my fill of discussing it over on the TalkBass Forum. It was unfortunate that none of the luthiers over there were unwilling to seriously look into it and try it for themselves, preferring to declare it bogus and putting me in an adversary role defending the concept. I can only say that I have used the process successfully on many basses and believe that it is tool that should be in every luthier's shop. After going through that rather unpleasant experience on TalkBass, I made a personal decision that I will not discuss it any longer on any forum or Internet discussion group. However, I am always available to answer legitimate questions from anyone who is truly interested in trying A0-B0 matching by email or PM. I have sent out many copies of my 1996 Michigan Violin Makers Assn Paper on A0-B0 matching in basses to interested individuals as email attachments. The same offer also applies to questions about the Vibration DeDamping process which we briefly touched on in an earlier thread on this forum.

[Ken Smith]

Originally Posted by Bob Branstetter

Thanks for the offer on A0-B0 Ken, but I got my fill of discussing it over on the TalkBass Forum. It was unfortunate that none of the luthiers over there were unwilling to seriously look into it and try it for themselves, preferring to declare it bogus and putting me in an adversary role defending the concept. I can only say that I have used the process successfully on many basses and believe that it is tool that should be in every luthier's shop. After going through that rather unpleasant experience on TalkBass, I made a personal decision that I will not discuss it any longer on any forum or Internet discussion group. However, I am always available to answer legitimate questions from anyone who is truly interested in trying A0-B0 matching by email or PM. I have sent out many copies of my 1996 Michigan Violin Makers Assn Paper on A0-B0 matching in basses to interested individuals as email attachments. The same offer also applies to questions about the Vibration DeDamping process which we briefly touched on in an earlier thread on this forum.

Ok, on that note, I would like to have one of each for my reading and files. I am sure there is something to gain there if one makes the effort. I on the other hand have been fortunate enough to choose Basses that need very little help other then the obvious repairs needed. Maybe I have done some matching on my own but didn't know I was doing it. I have set-up and improved quite a few basses in my time going by just feel. It would be good to see this in print. Maybe some others here would try this and discuss their results and that way we could have an A/B forum that you might, just might visit on occasion and give a shout once in a while.. That would be nice.