French Basses

[Ken Smith]

In 1971 I took a trip to Philly from NY with my friend Stanley Clarke. I met his old teacher and also visited a Bass shop. For sale there was a beautiful wine colored French Cello shaped Bass. The dealer said it was a Bernardel. I ended up buying it a month or so later and had it for quite a number of years until I got my Italian Bass and favored it instead. Eventually, I sold the Bernardel to a well know Jazz player in NY.

The shape was very similar to the Lion head Gand Bernardels we have seen but this had just a bit more grace. Sam Kolstein had appraised it as a Gustave Bernardel c.1859. I still have the appraisal in my collection. My teacher at that time was Lew Norton and he had remarked how fast the notes responded when playing. Just the lightest attack and the note would jump right out. The only problem was the size. I was learning the Dragonetti and I didn't carry around a step ladder. Long arms and fingers were not enough for this big Bass.

A few years later, I found another French Bass but in a Gamba shape. It was similar to the Barbe type Basses in the Elgar book so I called it a Barbe. It was restored a bit mainly by me but with the help of Paul Biase and then I sold it as well. At that time I was just buying, fixing and selling basses as a hobby. Being a freelance Bassist in NY was not always a 24/7 job so I needed a hobby to fill in my spare time. Basses was my hobby!

Recently I have seen two very fine upper end French Basses in NY only to learn one was not made in France. The first was a Derazey who made Basses for Vuillaume. The other which I thought was a Bernardel was actually a George Gemunder who just prior to moving to USA worked for Vuillaume making Basses for him as well. This Bass for all intensive purposes is a French Bass as would be considered a Panormo made a year after arriving in England from Italy. Or, would it be an English Bass?

My Loveri Bass was cut down in 1937 to look like a French Pear shaped Bass in the style of Quenoil so we know they were becoming popular around that time. Jacquet was another large family making Basses as well as the Gands. Several merges existed as well. Gand & Bernardel, Jacquet Gand, Jacquet-Pillament, Riviere & Hawkes and Collin-Mezin (20th c.) to name a few.

If you have a French Bass, please tell us about it and post some pics if you can.

[Brian Glassman]

Originally Posted by Ken Smith

Collin-Mezin (20th c.) to name a few.

I have seen pictures of them on various sites. They're beautiful looking instruments of the very sloped shoulder gamba variety.

What does anyone know of basses by this maker and how do they sound?


BG

[Tom Derthick]

My main axe is an August (Gustave) Bernardel, 1839, original label and papers. Unfortunately, it was damaged by the polar weather conditions we had in NoCal in early January, and is undergoing restoration as I write this. The work is being done by Pat McCarthy in Berkeley, CA.

I have owned the bass since 1997, purchased it from Tom Metzler, a dealer in LA. It had sat unplayed in a Pasadena basement for nearly a half century prior to this, and had not had any major repairs done to it in the 20th century. Classic violin shape, beautiful woodwork, red varnish in mint condition, all original (including scroll) except for an expert neck graft done in the 1800s that shortened the string length to around 1000 mm (around 40"). Due to the neck graft being placed at an extreme angle--very low standoff, scroll way back, very tall bridge--the bass had stupendous projection and an enormous, phat bottom end. Alas, the damage done in January will result in a small post patch (where there was none at all), new bass bar and replacement of the bottom brace on the back.

I have no photos to post at this time, but as soon as the bass is complete (mid summer) I will get some things together, including looks at the inside. This instrument is the best french orchestra bass I have ever personally played on, and much better than 3 other Bernardels I have previously tried. Hopefully once the new bar is broken in it will be the same or better than it was. A colleague of mine, who had played the Bernardel previously owned by Mike Leiter (sold two years ago for around 80K, so I've heard) said that hands down, my instrument sounded better and was in much better condition. I feel very fortunate to have it, and hope that it is what it was or better once the restoration is complete. A very special instrument indeed, and worthy of study as an outstanding model of french bass making.

[Ken Smith]

Originally Posted by Tom Derthick

My main axe is an August (Gustave) Bernardel, 1839, original label and papers. Unfortunately, it was damaged by the polar weather conditions we had in NoCal in early January, and is undergoing restoration as I write this. The work is being done by Pat McCarthy in Berkeley, CA.

I have owned the bass since 1997, purchased it from Tom Metzler, a dealer in LA. It had sat unplayed in a Pasadena basement for nearly a half century prior to this, and had not had any major repairs done to it in the 20th century. Classic violin shape, beautiful woodwork, red varnish in mint condition, all original (including scroll) except for an expert neck graft done in the 1800s that shortened the string length to around 1000 mm (around 40"). Due to the neck graft being placed at an extreme angle--very low standoff, scroll way back, very tall bridge--the bass had stupendous projection and an enormous, phat bottom end. Alas, the damage done in January will result in a small post patch (where there was none at all), new bass bar and replacement of the bottom brace on the back.

I have no photos to post at this time, but as soon as the bass is complete (mid summer) I will get some things together, including looks at the inside. This instrument is the best french orchestra bass I have ever personally played on, and much better than 3 other Bernardels I have previously tried. Hopefully once the new bar is broken in it will be the same or better than it was. A colleague of mine, who had played the Bernardel previously owned by Mike Leiter (sold two years ago for around 80K, so I've heard) said that hands down, my instrument sounded better and was in much better condition. I feel very fortunate to have it, and hope that it is what it was or better once the restoration is complete. A very special instrument indeed, and worthy of study as an outstanding model of french bass making.

I am sorry but 1839 sounds way too early for Gustave (Gustave August) son of Auguste Sebastian. I had a Bernardel that was appraised as 1859 by Gustave and still was told by others it may be too early for him. I will look up some dates during the week and post the info here. When you do your pics, PLEASE take some good shots of the Label. I think he was born around that time if I recall correctly. Still, I will look it up next week. Maybe your Bass is by Bernardel Pere' (Auguste Sebastian)?

[Tom Derthick]

Yes, it is the father, August, not the son Gustave, who made the bass. Sorry about the confusion. When I have photos of the label and bass I will be sure to post them. Tom Metzler has authenticated the label and instrument. A wonderful example of french bassmaking.

[Ken Smith]

Originally Posted by Tom Derthick

Yes, it is the father, August, not the son Gustave, who made the bass. Sorry about the confusion. When I have photos of the label and bass I will be sure to post them. Tom Metzler has authenticated the label and instrument. A wonderful example of french bassmaking.

Thanks. That's what I gathered. On Gustave, he assisted his father and did so most likely in 1859 (b.1832, Paris) as my Bass was appraised as, but was a pre-Brenardel-Gand Bass by far (1866 they merged). Mine was most likely made in the fathers shop but somehow attributed to Gustave. That is what the late Sam Kolstein appraised it as. I bought it in 1971 from Ed Maestro in Philly and he just called it a Bernardel and I assumed the Father at that time. It still had its original (and very thick) Neck/Scroll with no graft and seemed to be original as a 4-string. I had the neck Thinned by Maestro so I could play it. It also had the typical Bernardel slightly softer shoulders than those we see or the Claudot, Jacquet and Lamy model Basses with the broad Cello shoulders but had the false Cello button. I have some old pics so maybe I can get them scanned and post them here.

[Anselm Hauke]

Originally Posted by Tom Derthick

Yes, it is the father, August, not the son Gustave, who made the bass. Sorry about the confusion. When I have photos of the label and bass I will be sure to post them. Tom Metzler has authenticated the label and instrument. A wonderful example of french bassmaking.

hi tom,

do you have some pictures yet?

[Anselm Hauke]

Originally Posted by Ken Smith

I have some old pics so maybe I can get them scanned and post them here.

hi ken,
did you find the time to scan the pics yet?

[Ken Smith]

Originally Posted by Anselm Hauke

hi ken,
did you find the time to scan the pics yet?

Gotta find em first..lol

Saw them last a few years ago in the house. i didn't think to bring them to work but will hunt them down soon.

[Anselm Hauke]

thank you.

it´s interesting for me to see pics of bernadels because i recently played two and seen pics of others that are for sale, and they all look different.

[Tom Derthick]

Originally Posted by Anselm Hauke

hi tom,

do you have some pictures yet?

Just got the bass back from Pat McCarthy. Beautiful work. The bass is extraordinarily loud and resonant considering new bar, post patch, etc. Much brighter, lots of punch, more 'french' sounding than it was before--it used to be very dark, resonant with huge 'cushion'--but I suspect as it breaks in it should darken considerably, as it did when I bought it 10 years ago. (Prior to purchase the bass had not been played--other than prospective buyers trying it out--in 50 years.)

I have yet to photograph it since getting it back, but if I can figure it out I will attach some photos of the bass while still apart, taken about two weeks ago.

[Anselm Hauke]

hi tom
thank you!
very interesting pics, especially the signature and the label.
the two bernardels i ve seen had none of this.
i´m curios to see to bass from the outside

[Anselm Hauke]

Originally Posted by Tom Derthick

(Prior to purchase the bass had not been played--other than prospective buyers trying it out--in 50 years.)

this must be a distintive feature from bernadel basses.
the one i saw in paris not long ago (and another one some weeks before) were also not played for many years.

[Tom Derthick]

Originally Posted by Anselm Hauke

hi tom
thank you!
very interesting pics, especially the signature and the label.
the two bernardels i ve seen had none of this.
i´m curios to see to bass from the outside

Sorry I am not a very good photographer...these should give you some idea of this instrument. I can't wait to hear what it will sound like in a year!

[Anselm Hauke]

Originally Posted by Tom Derthick

Sorry I am not a very good photographer...

WOW, thank you tom.
you are a good photographer...and must be a lucky bass-owner!
very beautiful instrument!

[Ken Smith]

Tom, it looks like you have a clutter room there with all those Basses. Maybe the Bernardel can come and visit me here where there is more room to play, huh?..

By the way, your profile doesn't tell us where you are located in the world. Is this Bass still in France?

Would you mind posting all the usual measurements? It looks quite large from your photos.

[Tom Derthick]

Originally Posted by Ken Smith

Tom, it looks like you have a clutter room there with all those Basses. Maybe the Bernardel can come and visit me here where there is more room to play, huh?..

By the way, your profile doesn't tell us where you are located in the world. Is this Bass still in France?

Would you mind posting all the usual measurements? It looks quite large from your photos.

Pat McCarthy just did the very crazy detailed measurements for Duane Rosengard, who photographed this bass in May while still in pieces. I should have gotten a copy...here are the rough specs:

body length 44"
lower bout 26"
upper bout 20.5"
rib depth 8.75"
mensure 40.125" (1021 mm.) !!

The bass has been in California for about 100 years, in the Pasadena area till 1997, and in Sacramento with me since then. Don't worry, one of those basses in the background is a borrowed instrument being returned this week...the other is my 'picnic bass,' a mid 1800's Hungarian bass made of two instruments (top and rest of bass do not match), so no overcrowding here! Call me when I retire in 20 years or so! Of course, if you get tired of humid summers, you can always visit the bass in sunny California...most folks never leave. (36 million of us can't be wrong, right?)

[Ken Smith]

Originally Posted by Brian Glassman

I have seen pictures of them (20th century Collin-Mezin) on various sites. They're beautiful looking instruments of the very sloped shoulder gamba variety.

What does anyone know of basses by this maker and how do they sound?

BG

Sorry that your question was ignored for the last 6 months. I just recently researched a few of these Basses that I have seen on line as well. One which I thought was made by Collin-Mezin that has a P.Bisch Brand/Label is now in my possession. Look at the link and my 'comments' about the Bass. Your opinions are welcomed.

I originally thought it was a Collin-Mezzin because of the Scroll being the same. Then I remembered about the French Trade Guilds and how identical Scrolls were sold to various shops. I have seen at lease four different Basses with the exact same Scroll so attributing them all to C-M because of the Scroll alone would be an error in judgment I think.

You can Google 'Collin-Mezin Violin' and 'Paul Bisch Violin' to read more about them on line. That would give you some idea at least.

The Bisch Bass has been SOLD.

[Brian Glassman]

Originally Posted by Ken Smith

Sorry that your question was ignored for the last 6 months. I just recently researched a few of these Basses that I have seen on line as well. One which I thought was made by Collin-Mezin that has a P.Bisch Brand/Label is now in my possession. Look at the link and my 'comments' about the Bass. Your opinions are welcomed.

I originally thought it was a Collin-Mezzin because of the Scroll being the same. Then I remembered about the French Trade Guilds and how identical Scrolls were sold to various shops. I have seen at lease four different Basses with the exact same Scroll so attributing them all to C-M because of the Scroll alone would be an error in judgment I think.

You can Google 'Collin-Mezin Violin' and 'Paul Bisch Violin' to read more about them on line. That would give you some idea at least.

The Bisch Bass has been SOLD.

Ken, I hadn't seen this post 'til now.

Yes, but how does it SOUND?!
BG

[Ken Smith]

Originally Posted by Brian Glassman

Ken, I hadn't seen this post 'til now.

Yes, but how does it SOUND?!
BG

It sounds better from 20 feet away then on top of it while playing..lol

It needs some work but has a quality sound and seems to be quite loud. I sold it already so it wont be me having it restored and stuff..