Where are they??
 

The BIG old German Basses from Mittenwald made 150 years ago and before, where are they? Other than a few for sale in London or Germany on occasion you hardly ever hear about them?

These would be those of the Kloz/Klotz family and the later Seitz/Seiz, Neuner and/or Hornsteiner family of makers. Throw in Baader/Bader while you're at it!

These are the real big 4/4 or 5/4 (as some call them) full sized Basses.

Is it possible that the Central European players love them so much that they just don't give them up? ..or?.. Has it just been more profitable for dealers scouring Europe over the years to bring back only Italian, English and French Basses?

Lets talk some German here.. Basses I mean.;)

well, here is an Austrian bass for sale,
http://www.talkbass.com/forum/showthread.php?t=558909

..looks like a nice bass , and at the right price. I have played quite a few good sounding German basses , but can't say i find the look of many of them attractive . They can look a bit ugly.
This one looks nice . . Those hat peg tuners just don't do it for me though.

here is a couple of Neuner & Hornsteiner , at the bottom of the page here , very nice looking basses ,
http://www.yamamoto-bass.com/bass/room.html
i played one once , had a huge sound , but it was such a large bass ,it was almost impossible to play , ... i'm 5'10 '' so no shorty , but i couldn't get around on that thing . If i remember, the stop was 44 inches .

ok..
 

Nice bass but it looks more German than Viennese to me. The label doesn't seem to match the bass either. If it were an 1809 dated bass German or Viennese then all you would need now to answer my call "where are they?" would be to have it in a 4/4 full sized. I am looking for the really BIG ones. Basses that measure somewhere like my Big Gamba which most believe is English but not everyone.

String length alone does not determine size in my book. It is the body length mainly. So 47-48" long or so is the targeted size for the 4/4. Bridge placement with or without centering on the F-hole nicks determine the string length. Depending on where the FFs were cut into the Top would determine the intended string length along with the length of the neck itself.

Nice Bass you links us to there but please, keep looking..

ok..
 

This one here is closer to what I am looking for but 1869 is more like the factory era of the firm N&H. They actually had that company for about 250 years so I guess the factory thing is cool. I am looking for original old Basses by Neuner, Seitz, Klotz, Stainer (if any real ones exist), Hornsteiner (if there are non-firm made basses), Baader, and any from other individual makers that made those big 4/4 full sized Basses. Some may have even been made (from what I have read) as 3-String Basses (yes, in Germany) but strung with only the Lower strings, the treble string removed so it supports the bottom of the Orchestra. Unlike the 3-string model from Italy, France, England and Spain where they removed the lower string. Making the bass 'full sized' would have been more practical for producing the lower fundamental bass notes desired.

So, keep 'em coming. May I suggest looking at Orchestras actually IN central Europe where the might be hiding there in the Bass section. From what I have read, several makers made 4/4 sized basses in Germany from the period I mentioned and mostly in Mittenwald. I just wanna see as many of them as I can find.

;):o:rolleyes:

oh...?
 

Ok, you silence Sir Anselm is loudly heard!

Maybe being from this region, you could tell us things one would only learn from being a German native experiencing these 'hidden treasured basses' first hand.. Can you?

I suppose you have already seen http://www.contrabass.co.uk/2748.htm, but anyway.
I know that some basses like that are residing around the country. I guess it is only logical to assume that they are even more frequent in Germany... got that impression when I was down there in March.

well..
 

I know that bass and the size is on track but that is a late bass for the period and age I am looking for. I am looking for c.1700 - c.1820 or so. Supposedly the American/Yankee maker Prescott took his ideas for his Gamba and Busetto/lower rounded corner and full sized model from one or some German basses at the time. This would be 1811-1830 or so in which some of them were first made in USA.

Also, the Hill family of London c.1760-1780 or so made basses with outer Rib linings that are thought to be of German design. So, where are the Basses that they copied this from? Not 1880 but 1780 and before. Who were the makers? The Klotz family? The elder Neuners? Who?

I would venture to say and guess this. I have an old bass possibly from this period that most believe is English but according to one professional (I shouldn't really say expert) thinks it may have been made in Mittenwald for the English market. He mentioned that the Tarr basses were made this way as well. Maybe in the white and finished off there. I pointed out the English style 3-string scroll and asked "this is German??" He replied, "they will make what you ask for!"

We know already that the later Hawkes Basses from about 1890 were contracted to Germany as well as some earlier Basses sold by Tarr (probably not all of the Tarr Basses are German). We also know that England and Germany were not only trading partners but partners in War as they joined the British troops fighting the settlers here in America that were aided by the French. These would be the Prussians I think.

In the Violin market, the English makers from the latter 1700s on thru the mid 1800s had to compete with cheaper imports of 'fiddles' coming from both Germany and France alike. We also know that model wise, the English favored the Stainer and Tirol patterns over the newer introduced Italians of which Amati was the first followed by Strad.

I have seen many 'attributed' English Basses that looked very German in design but English in flavor as well. This I guess would be either an English made German model or a German made English model? How can we tell them apart if for the most part, they are mixed in flavor?

Well, anyway my theory is this on the 'missing basses'. For one, the Germans like their homegrown original old basses. Two, playing a local bass saves them money from buying one imported from England or Italy as these are more expensive in the world market as well. As we see many many Italian & English Basses filling the Orchestras in USA and around the world the Central European Orchestras at least in part (as they too have been spotted with 'some' Italian & English basses) seem content with their own German basses.

If this Big Bass of mine is of German birth (and it was cut down a bit well over a century ago as well) then it may help to shed some light on this mystery. Mittenwald, even going back 250 years ago were 'contractors' as well as makers of their own brand. We know of mainly the 'brands' of Basses we see here that were made for the most part in the 20th century and shipped in to be labeled by the importer. It's just we havent put 2 & 2 together to see that this is and was not a new idea. It was going on for over a century before, just mainly unnoticed.

I guess with this economic and cultural favored home grown Basses the same could be said for the old Viennese as well. I have personally only seen one full sized Thir Bass in my life over here.

So, the question remains, where are all the really OLD (pre 1850) really BIG (4/4 & 5/4) German Basses from the Mittenwald School?

My next question would be when did they start making basses of this full size regularly in Germany or specifically in Mittenwald.

Funny thing, looking at my big Bass at the ISB, a German says Klotz school and the same day an Italian says Gagliano School. The English for the most part say Central or Northern England while a few have mentioned a maker or two in London. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Do they see just what the want to see or are their eyes just biased subconsciously?

Another mystery bass (Mittenwald/English)?
 

Hi Ken,

I played your mystery bass several times at the ISB - what an amazing sound!
I live in Rochester, NY and know Paul and Jesse at CSC. I play in the RPO and am on the faculty at the Eastman school. I too had a mystery bass at the ISB. It's a 5/4 instrument that I've always thought of as German. I showed it to a well known luthier and as I was getting it out of the case, another shop owner came by and said that he had a customer who had a very big bass JUST like mine and that it had a label by E. Withers. The first luthier then pulled from his collection a bass JUST like mine that he attributed to James Brown. Within a few minutes I went from having never seen another bass like mine to knowing of three.

When I got home, I did some homework and got in touch with the Contrabass Shoppe and sent a photo of my bass. They told my is was probably of Mittenwald origins perhaps made by Neuner, Hornsteiner, or Seitz. I did more home work and found a bassist who has a bass from 1827 by Seitz as shown in the photo. The lower portions of the C bouts are similar to those on your mystery bass Ken.

My bass has very large dimensions as listed below:

Back length 46 5/8"
upper bout – 22"
middle bout - 16"
lower bouts - 28 3/4"

Depth of lower ribs - 8 1/4"

Body Stop – 23 7/8"

String length 43"

I'll attach a few photos in my next post. I guess my question is - what kind of bass is this? I've heard both Mittenwald and English. Photos to follow...

humm
 

Interesting stuff here. All of the English dealers after looking at pics of my big bass said it was English. The first time I saw the bass and examined it in my office I was getting brain flashes in my head.. German.. no, English.. no.. German.. no, English.. over and over again as I looked it over.

I too have seen some other Basses 'on-line' that have sold as English but looked a bit German as well. What are they really? Well, let's look at a few things here first..

Oh, and before I begin on the E.Withers comment, I was told by one English player at the ISB that he too has seen basses like mine. Two of them and they are labeled and or attributed to R. or W. Davis! The successor to the Davis shop was none other than Edward Withers I.

Ok, here is a list of features on these basses that could be considered German;
..a black center string running the full length of the back.
..the top purfled but the back unpurfled.
..the back bending gradually from the upper corner block to the neck block.
..the fine grain top wood and fine even flamed back wood
Features that would also be on these German basses would be;
..a full 3/4, 4/4 or 5/4 size often with lower rounded corners aka busseto.
..a scroll made to fit 4-strings as 3 was rare but sometimes used with the lower 3 only for support.
..a varnish that is usually spirit based and the wear on it 'chippy' rather than 'rub-type' fading wear.
..the inner linings led 'into' the corner blocks rather than just flush fit.

On the English Basses, here are some similar features with some differences we find on them;
..the black center back strip if present can be original or added as a later repair. If original it could have been a contracted bass 'in the white' from Mittenwald, maybe?
..The Top purfled and the back not purfled BUT black lines painted in its place (visual on my bass).
..the bend up at the neck area quite steep and not gradual as mine has but does start at the corner block and bends drastically the last 1/3rd of the way.
..wood grade can be domestic or imported as England did trade with Germany so species of wood is no guarantee of origin of bass (in my opinion).
.. a full 3/4, 4/4 or even 5/4 in size. Tops ranging from 44" to 46" to 48".
.. a shorter scroll made to fit only 3-strings with no vision or extra space to fit 4 tuners. The reason why the 4 tuners on many old English Basses are so close together.
.. a varnish that seems stronger than others of the same era that is often oil based but after 2 centuries of repairs we see a lot of spirit added over it often showing the layers.
..inner linings are up to the block and not inlet into the corners with the exception of some English basses where the linings are let in only within the c-bout on the inside of the block and not from outer edge to the bouts.

I know this is a lot of reading but work is work. Did I mention cross bars on the back? The Germans would typically have 4. One center, one lower and two upper. This Bass of mine had twin lower bars but thin like a cello bass bar at maybe 1/2" wide an inch apart like an old Gamba might have. A center and one upper look original on the scars as well but the secondary scars look to maybe have 4 bars. Currently it has a 3-pc X-brace that looks over 100 years old.

My Scroll was a 3-string and the TP was as well but doesn't look to be the original TP. Maybe was put on when the X-brace was. My Bassbar is thin, shallow and short. Looks to be made to support only 3 gut strings. The Top however is strong with no sinkage ever in its past, a healthy arch and some extremely fine grain spruce as well. It currently has a 170mm wide bridge as the Bar is inset a bit. The upper inner F-Eye measurement is about 190mm. This is a BIG bass.

Jeff, did we personally meet at the Show? Did I see your Bass? I don't recall either.

Anyway, on this mystery hunt one theory may be that some of the English Basses that look German may be a bit of both. Made in Mittenwald and finished in England or made in England and repaired or modified in Germany.

My Big bass has been cut and not just up at the Block like recently done. It looks like the outer bouts were cut-trimmed in a bit and maybe even shortened a bit at the lower block around the Bouts as well. The Re-curve is gone in all of these areas and only in the upper bout near the block and the Corners somewhat.

The outline that we see now on it was actually more squat looking and less roundish at the upper and lower bouts as the purfling is not there on these suspected cut areas of the bouts but is there at the bottom and corners but not so complete. The original edges may have been re-used in areas as well. The upper portion of the bass near the neck looks original for the most part. This Bass had been worked on by many people in the past. I would say that the last was about 80-100 years ago or so when converted to 4-string not including the most recent restoration. This Bass even had a C-extension at one time as well but was out of repair for most on the 20th century.

Jeff?
 

Can I see a close up pic of the Neck-block area under the Top, the Ribs and the Scroll (all sides with tuners). Thx..

Big bass photos
 

Hi Ken,

Here are some photos:

humm
 

Well Jeff, aside from both basses you show being Gamba shaped I don't see much in common between them.

Better pics of both might help but I need to see Ribs, scrolls and Neck/block area as well.

Am having trouble loading photos. Here's one of the side of the bass.
I'm not suggesting that our two basses are the same... I just got
very curious about your mystery bass and the idea of the large Mittenwald basses. More to come when I can figure out the picture problem.

Here's another photo of the ribs, neck joint. Yes we met at the convention but did not speak for long. You were swamped. I did not show you my bass, though I wish I would have. It has a huge, deep organ like sound. Very satisfying to play. I think this is a Mittenwald bass - never thought it anything else until I met the two other people at the convention who said their basses like mine were English.

well..
 

What I meant was that the two you posted are different. That's all. The first one does look like a Seitz I saw a few years ago on a German website.

The Gears on your bass are nearly identical to the ones put on mine after it was converted to a 4-string. I shipped them to NY and trying to get them back now just to have. The plates on your I have seen pictured before on a few German Basses. One had the same exact gears as well.

nice bass..
 

I don't know what it is but most of the older English Gamba shaped Basses I have seen had broader shoulders and not sloped like your. I don't see a Seitz connection but maybe one of the Neuner's if it's Mittenwald. Are the Shoulders original or have they been cut?

I would have loved to see and play this Bass. Most big basses have less than friendly shoulders to match. Your Bass looks like it's easy to get up into thumb position without much stretch.

The funny thing is that the person whose bass is labled Withers says his bass is larger than mine so I assume if made by the same person that mine was cut down. The front is perfled the back is not. There is a hint of a black line down the center of the back but it almost looks painted on and it doesn't run all the way down. There was some pretty major damage to the back of the neck joint at some point. I'll post a few more pics of this and the inside of the bass.

Sorry for the multiple posts. These all show the details of the constructive elements of the bass. It's clear from the photo of the scroll that this bass has always been a four stringer. The bass has five braces, one large one in the middle and two in the upper and two in the lower. Also, you can see the black strip down the back is faint.

humm
 

Interesting pics. I would also like to see the rear button of the Scroll/pegbox.

The Scroll and Gears looks original to each other. I would say Mittenwald 1820-1860 period, maybe later. Not sure. Do you know for sure if this Scroll is original to the Bass?

The Braces in the Back (would like to see the lower one too) look German as well, like seen on Hornsteiner Basses. But, the Bars have been thinned across the top of them. The oxidation on the edge is way older than the top.

The Back Button area does not look original meaning it was cut. The upper block and Rib-Neck caps of Ebony are part of that cut.

The inner linings are from various dates but does look like German work internally.

Jeff, in your first post with the two pics (Seitz bass?) you show some measurements. Are they from this bass or that bass?

This Bass also has some northern Italian flavor which is why I think it is Mittenwald from the early-mid 19th century. Very interesting looking bass. Thanks for the pics. More pics would be welcomed.

Thanks for all your help Ken. I'm a slow tech-no learner but wanted to share a few more photos of my big mystery bass (although, some things are becoming more clear). The measurements I sent a few posts ago are from this bass not the Seitz bass I posted a while ago. I've set up a link with the photos of the bass giving more detail. Any observations are appreciated. I also have a Morelli bass dated from 1910 that I'm going to take some photos of. Though I've seen a lot of Morelli basses, I've not seen too many with the same general shape as mine. Most I've seen are from the 1920s and beyond but I've not see another one like mine from 1910. Here's the link

http://www.flickr.com/photos/40196546@N07/

nice bass..
 

First off, on the Morelli, I have a section just for that here. Morelli is a brand that was made in Germany and labeled here, sometimes stamped there. I don't think any of them were ever dated.

On this big boy, I think this is just as described to me by Michael Krahmer (Pollmann) at this past ISB. On the Backs of these old Mittenwald Basses, 2 bars at the bottom, one center and two upper, exactly as your bass shows. The Klotz family was still active I believe into 1800.

May I suggest you send these pics to Pollmann as well and ask Michael what he think of it. He looked at my bass and thought it was Cut. I was told previously that it was wear and not cut. I thought personally that the Bouts were cut slightly. He thinks the bottom and lower corners were cut possibly as well. He has a good eye and knows his past native bass makers.

The upper bouts of your bass are also a bit uneven. That's another possible sign of being cut. The fact that the treble side of the upper bout front and back are sloped slightly more is also a sign that the bass was cut the play the upper positions. Something that was not in vogue when the bass was first made.

I know I mentioned some northern Italian flavor but the Italians have also used a little German flavor from time to time. 3 Italian Basses I currently own (c.1800s, 1919 and 1936) were all made with 'hidden' dovetail neck joints. Unlike the German style in which the the Necks appear to sit on top of the block and then dovetailed into the block, sometimes obviously, the Italians are set in with the Top covering the joint. Only if the Top or back is removed can you see that it is dovetailed.

On my Italians, 2 of 3 have been changed to a mortise joint in restoration ad the 3rd will be as well. My Big Bass had a dovetail as well but the neck was not original to the block. On one of my Italians, the Neck was secondary as well and still dovetail. The Dovetail has been used everywhere at one time or another so that in itself is not a definite sign of origin. I assume personally that the dovetail came from cabinet making and many makers of basses did as well. Not all bass makers were trained violin makers either. Also, some trained makers may have believed the dovetail was better with the neck itself extending along the back behind the block as well. That style I was told is Mittenwald, old school like Klotz. M.Klotz the eldest Mittenwald maker trained with a Fussen maker that had settled in Padua Italy. Maybe we are looking at modified Fussen school when we look at Mittenwald. I have seen only one Fussen Bass that was very old, maybe 17th century and it easily passed for Italian. Fussen may be the birth place of the blockless bass as well.

We spend so much time rather the violin and bass world on studying the Italians, French and English that the souther German and Tirol makers rarely get a mention. Maybe this is because their better work has passed as Italian in the trade!

Thanks
 

Thanks Ken,

I'll contact the Michael. Do you an email address? Also, I posted some photos of my Morelli bass on the link you sent. If you have a minute, would love for you to take a look.

Thanks,

JC

ok..
 

I got this from their website; info@poellmann-contrabass.de

I saw the Morelli and made my comments. Nice bass as well.

There is a picture of a Seitz bass with rounded lower corners towards the bottom of this page. Again, probably a little late for what you are looking for. Of course, that page also show the famous "Bussetto" formerly belonging to Rainier Zepperitz.

As I've mentioned on that "other" bass site, I believe the rounded lower corners and f-hole designs on that instrument are derived from the viola d'amore family. Another thread here showed a bass by Woodbury and Burditt that also shows some of these more exaggerated viola d'amore type features (for example, compare it to this viola d'amore), but with standard f-holes. This bass makes me wonder if at least part of the inspiration for the rounded lower corners on many early American basses came from true viola d'amore style instruments, rather than simply Mittenwald basses with rounded lower corners. Here is a modern reproduction of a violone made in Nuremberg in 1640 with strong viola d'amore features as another comparison to the Woodbury and Burditt instrument.

Incidentally, while looking up some stuff on Woodbury and Burditt (and it seems their basses may have been actually made by William Conant) I found this interesting notice from the "Fourth Exhibition of the Massachusetts Charitable Mechanic Association" in 1844, mentioning a musicial instrument competition that included instruments from Woodbury and Burditt, Prescott, Dearborn and others. This notice from their first exhibition in 1837 mentions basses and cellos by Prescott, the Dearborns, J.B. Allen, and Henry Prentiss. It also mentions that, regarding the basses and cellos:

"They have been constructed upon such models of instruments of foreign manufacture, as the makers chanced to meet with; and, where these models have been departed from, the changes have all been made without reference to any other use of the instrument, than as mere accompaniment to the voices in common psalmody."

ok..
 

First off, I have copied the American text references and copied them to my History of the American Bass thread for others to see there.

Now on the two basses from Japan you post I have seen them several times. I even went as far to ask Michael Krahmer of Pollmann face to face at the ISB to ask why he/they use the term 'Busseto/Bussetto/Busetto (pick your spelling). The maker G.M. del B. came from the town of Busseto in Italy. I even started a thread about the use of this name Busseto as well in the Forum. Michael told me it was because of this bass pictured that his father Gunther believes to be real.

In the Raymon Elgar books of the 1960's he revers to this as 'lower rounded corner' and nothing more. Somewhere this bass showed up and the old violin/lute maker G.M. del Busseto is suddenly a bass maker!

Look carefully at the upper and lower bouts of that bass? Klotz school from Mittenwald ALL the way in my eyes. I think that bass is an old German bass from Mittenwald or that area and has nothing to do with Italy. The form is nothing like anything ever seen from Italy and this maker is not known for making anything within the larger instruments.

So, in my mind, both the Seitz and this so called Bussetto Bass are from the same school of making with maybe a century or so between them.

Just my opinion.;)

Thanks for posting those references to the other thread. I just ran across that stuff and thought it was interesting to hear what people of their own time thought of those instruments.

I'm with you on the origins of the supposed "Bussetto" bass. I just noticed that the Viola d'amore Society of America says the viola d'amore first appeared around Munich, Salzburg, and Bohemia and only later appeared in Italy. Looking at a random selection of violas d'amore, it seems the vast majority of the old makers had German names, which would seem to support the theory of the German origin and production of that type of instrument. And of course, Mittenwald is quite close to Munich and Salzburg, so it isn't surprising to see some of the design elements I would associate with the viola d'amore in instruments from Mittenwald.

It looks like in your conversation with Michael Krahmer you have helped confirm what I have long suspected--that the entire reason we call rounded lower corners "busseto" corners comes from the very suspect attribution of that one old bass.

Do you have any idea why that bass would have been attributed to Busseto in the first place? Does it share any features with his known instruments?

Busetto, the maker
 

I have no clue or answers to this or why or when. Just that when I look at that bass, the bouts and style without the lower corners or sound holes, I see the word GERMAN loud and clear. I have seen a few instruments in books by the real maker Busetto. These I recall were Violins. I will have to look again to see if there were any other small instruments. Looking though at Busetto's work, style, varnish, etc. I have no idea how his name was ever associated with this bass other than a bass that needed a name to fit a price point.

How many German and non-Italian Basses have we seen mis-named as Italians. Also, not ONLY Italian but the MOST famous names possible. Sounds like dealer tampering if you ask me.

I am not saying that this so called Busetto is not a great bass. Maybe it is the best sounding bass ever heard. It just doesn't make it Italian. Remember, Stainer who is from northwest Austria just below Germany reportedly trained with the Amati family. Mathias Klotz reportedly trained with Stainer and also a Fussen maker that was working in Italy. Then Klotz returned to Mittenwald and founded the school of Violin making there. That is some high class associations if you ask me. With those credentials I would expect his work and that of his followers to be of a high order if so desired. There are many appreciated Italian makers who had less of an association at their start so being German is not a crime, just a fact.

These big German basses from Mittenwald can stand up to just about any Italian Bass in a professional Orchestra from what I have heard and seen. Remember, those powerful sounding Orchestras of the 19th century were not Italian, English or French. They were from Germany and Central Europe. I once heard that if in the 18th or 19th century you wanted to play good music, you were told to go to Vienna! This is how many of the Italian Violins found their way to Vienna and how some of the makers learned about them. I have also read that the English learned a lot about Orchestra basses from visiting Orchestra and seeing the big German 4-stringers when the English were still playing on 3-strings.

;) .. I guess because there was no Internet back then or 'Ken's Corner', you had to wait for a visit from outside your area to learn of these things if not travel yourself to see it.

Basses in the Orchestra
 

I agree Ken. I sit between a fabulous Gagliano and Ventepane bass in the Rochester Philharmonic played by two wonderful and seasoned bassists and my old Mittenwald bass keeps pace with these two Italian instruments. Between the three of us in the back row of the section, we put out a lot of sound. And it's not a matter of volume but quality and depth of sound.
Like the Mittenwald basses discussed here, both these Italian basses are perfled in the front but NOT in the back. They are Gamba shape with flat backs. The Ventapane has a 44 inch string length and the player has the same bridge that came with the bass in the late 1960s when there were still gut strings on the bass. Both have been cut down.

wow..
 

Nice story there Jeff. I wish more Orchestra Pros like yourself would come up and Post.

I think that it was not all that uncommon for makers to leave off the Purfling on the Back or in some cases like my Martini, front and back are without. The deep edges make one think there is something there but just a bevel line at the bead. Basses like these big Gambas whether Italian, Mittenwald or English have a lot in common. My Big Gamba is believed to be all 3 origins depending on who you ask and for good reason. It resembles a bit of each style. Who or where it was made will remain a mystery but for me, if the sound is there, then you can just sit back, relaxe and enjoy the ride..

Here's one just barely being old enough: http://www.kontrabass.ch/c_cms/baess...iner-1859.html

yes.. but..
 

Yes, but that's the tail end of the era I was looking for. I think I have seen a few of those basses and that would be a good period because of the growth of the modern orchestras in which they needed them. The Basses I was looking for were the BIG ones that were even used as only 3-stringers just for the lower notes and were later converted to 4 and even cut down in size possibly.

There are MANY makers within each of these families of Neuner and Hornsteiner but there seems to have been a factory of sorts with that name way back into the 18th century from what I have read. Only a few of them were ever involved with basses as Violins was and always is the main focus of these shops.

Still, thanks for posting.

so, what do you think about this one:
http://www.geba-online.de/marktplatz...e_id=0&id=4616

humm..??
 

Mittenwald or maybe even Bozen-Bolzano/Alban-Albani school. Looks a bit Italian to me as well. This is the ad. What does it say, Fussen school bass?

i says:
early 19th century
unknown maker, probably füssen school,
1994 complete restaurated at bernhard kort, berlin http://www.kort-basses.com/?set_language=de excellent condition
was played in berlin philharmonic, german opera berlin, bayreuth, stattskapelle dresden
scale length 106cm, 187 cm tall, 38.500€

i like it, but: what else could you get for 38.500?

$?
 

That's getting close to $60k. Plenty but depending on the sound, it could be a great bass. I think that price is high for over here. If it were English or Italian then maybe but who knows.. Someone will buy it.

it looks like a good sounding bass...

i am not sure if the f-holes are typical füssen, but what is typical füssen...

where are they?
 

Well, I have one here, just in and will post pics soon. Estimated to be c.1860 Mittenwald. Also, I might see one tomorrow on a gig as one of the Subs might have one but I don't know who is all playing yet till I get there at the dress rehearsal.

Another Mittenwald Bass
 

Hello,

Almost a year ago I made several posts about my old Mittenwald bass. Recently, I came across another bass that looks very much like mine. Just for interest, here are a couple of photos of both basses side by side - mine is on the left.