What do you want in a bass ?

[Martin Sheridan]

Stradivari and before him, the Amati, had definite ideas about F hole placement. Stradivari's original designs still exist showing how and where he marked the fs. In fact these marking are still visible inside, on the top inside, of the Servais cello. Personally, I'm unclear about how he arrived at the exact placing, but the top holes appear to be in the center of the Cs and top curve of the bottom hole is in line with the bottom of the purfling as it curves into the bottom C corner. In fact this is one thing that experts look for when identifying classic Italian instruments. This was almost always ahered to, but Guarneri del Gesu made a few exceptions where you will see the bottom hole somewhat higher although the top holes follow the Amati/Stradivari principle.

Now when it comes to basses,there are so few from the classical period extant that I don't know if applies. If anyone has a good picture of the
1690 J. B. Rogeri take a look at it and report back as it's believed that he studied with Nicolo Amati and so he probably would have incorporated this into his basses (bass?). I've seen that bass and right now I can't remember.

I had a very old Italian bass in my shop once that had the longest F holes I've ever seen, not particularly wide, but very long. You would have thought that the top wouldn't have stood the strain, but it was in fine condition and the sound was quite good.

[Matthew Tucker]

Originally Posted by Martin Sheridan

Stradivari and before him, the Amati, had definite ideas about F hole placement. [...] This was almost always ahered to, .

But do we know whether his ideas were based on an aesthetic design principle that happened to work OK, so he stuck with it ... or whether he tried dozens of different sizes and placements (keeping all other things equal, of course) until he found the BEST one? I tend to think the former is more likely. We don't have any evidence of strads with experimental FF hole placement, do we?

In relation to basses, there are SO MANY variations in corpus volume, plate shape, string length, top graduation, internal bracing, rib depth, wood choice etc that I can't see how any of the placement rules Strad used could apply just like that.

In fact if there was an optimum FF placing and size for a bass, you'd think that someone would have found it by now!

Actually that's what I love about basses. The lack of a formula.

[Martin Sheridan]

I don't know that anyone knows for sure if this was aesthetics or acoustics, but they do arrive at the the acoustic center of the instrument more or less.

I've always loved basses partly because of the variations in size and design. I'm glad we don't all have to make the same one over and over again, yet it is sometimes a source of frustration that the bass you just spent six months on is too big or too small for someone, but they always fit somebody! This is true also with violas which vary a lot in size and shape. Violins and cellos are almost completely standardized.

[Matthew Tucker]

Originally Posted by Martin Sheridan

I don't know that anyone knows for sure if this was aesthetics or acoustics, but they do arrive at the the acoustic center of the instrument more or less.

What's the "acoustic centre"?

[Ken McKay]

Matthew do you have Sacconi's book?

Should I post my f-hole taping experiment here, it is kinda anti-climatic?

[Matthew Tucker]

No i don't have Sacconi's book. Is it a bible I should have?

I'd love to see/hear your experiment. But I fear we're derailing the thread a bit...

[Matthew Heintz]

Other than aesthetics, is there a reason that we don't see more open peg boxes? It seems like the ease of string changes and reduced scroll-weight would be particularly nice for basses with extensions. In any case, I'd add that to my list of "features" that I'd want in a bass (for whatever that's worth).

[Ken McKay]

Originally Posted by Matthew Tucker

No i don't have Sacconi's book. Is it a bible I should have?

I'd love to see/hear your experiment. But I fear we're derailing the thread a bit...

From the Sacconi book, " The position of the ff holes is as fundamental to the quality and power of the sound of the instrument as the archings are. For this reason in order to position the ff holes correctly, Stradivari used to study their dimensions and exact position for every single model by means of a series of trials and experiments until he reached a definitive solution. He would then establish this by a special drawing on paper which reproduced the centre (bridge area) of the instrument with its ff holes correctly positioned. This positioning was also determined by finding the point of balance of the finished belly without the bass-bar having been atached. In fact in my experience, the notches of the ff holes always occur in the ideal transverse line which divides the upper and lower surfaces into two areas of equal weight." This is what Sacconi called the acoustic center which is which is south of the measurement center.