What do you want in a bass ?

[Ken Smith]

Originally Posted by Matthew Tucker

I didn't know the Storioni top was off, and actually i DID meant Ken McKay's cormerless.

But, if the top is off such a nice bass of YOURS, no doubt the restorer will be taking some measurements. So yes, you could have the above mentioned hypothesis tested. Would you be interested to do that?

Are you making a graduation map of the Storioni for your own reference?

The Storioni itself is as unusual inside as it is outside. Actually, the inside is even more unusual by the specs we have come to know.

1-The current Bass Bar is actually 'along' the grain lines of the Top rather than at a slight angle yet the sound is to die for and the low end volume is actually dangerous if you are too close.

2-The Ribs are 'Laminated' or 'doubled' and look to be original to the Bass judging by the oldest oxidation inside. The outer layer of the Ribs (2 of them only, one per side) are 'flat cut' Burled Veneer. The inner layer is cross grain (from Top to Back) Spruce. The Tone from the Ribs either tapping them or when playing the bass is sweet. The Sound is evident even from the sides of the bass.

3-The current graduations of the Top whether original or altered are strange as well. The outer areas of the Top are actually thicker at the edges than at the center. This is as Arnold mentioned 'reverse graduations'.

4-The old Repairer/s put a large cross grain patch on the treble side of the lower bout Top. This is totally against all the rules in good tone making as are all of the above mentioned items.

When discussing the restoration with Arnold a few days ago we agreed that this Bass sounds too good to mess with some of the unorthodox work inside the bass. We agreed that what is intact and 'sound' should be left alone. What is broken, should be fixed. The area around that cross grain patch has some sinkage up to the G-foot of the Bridge. That patch will come out and some partial mold made to restore it back to its original form or as close as possible. A idea of a total 'gutting' of the old inside work is off the table on this one. "If it ain't broke, don't fix it".

So, what makes a great Bass sound great? I haven't a clue..

Oh, and as far as F-Hole placement or centering, forget it. This bass was made to be LONGGGG, 44 1/2" string Length with the current neck. Maybe back in the old days it was less with a shorter neck. On this Bass, I have moved the Bridge around quite a bit as far as the length goes. The sound however slightly changed with each Bridge move lost zero quality regardless.

Oh and #5, the Bridge for this Bass is extra wide, maybe 170+mm or so but only requires a 150mm bridge by the spacing of the upper F-Eyes. On the pics of the Fs on this Bass you can see I trimmed off the outer feet of the Bridge on each side. Maybe about 5mm per side. Still, it's too big for this bass as it's made.

Nothing is normal with this bass other than the tuning. oops, no.. it was a 3-string originally and who knows what they used back then for notes.

[Ken McKay]

Matthew, my top is glued to the ribs so can't do the experiment. Also keep in mind that the shape of a doulble bass is a little different than a violin with narrower upper bout, so this might not have been applicable to gamba instruments. Strad did make gamba shaped instruments and lots of different types and shapes including cornerless. The sons did not understand Antonio's methods completely according to Sacconi. They miss-interpreted the ff placement when they finished some of the fathers work and placed them in the wrong place according to the fathers method.

The classic cremonese and Brescian methods are probably more related to esthetics than acousitics of the instrument although harmony is harmony. I think that is why Arnold's - knows it when he sees it - statement makes sense to me.

Another interesting comment from Sacconi is that ff holes too far apart are not as bad acoustically as too close together. But keep in mind this is in context of Antonio's system of arching and proportion.

In modern acoustics, which may lead us down the wrong path or not, there is not many body modes that are not effected by ff hole placement or size. The air modes are a part of the acoustic footprint of the sound and also effect the plate modes by coupling with them, but it is extremely complex because of the way the body vibrates. The flexibility of the whole corpus helps lower the main air resonance by its "breathing" or bellows motion. The top and back plates, but mostly the top vibrate like a big piston and also with more complex "islands" creating distinct resonaces along the spectrum that give the bass it's voice or signature.

My opinion is that a combination of esthetics from geometrical harmony and modern acoustics will be able to speed the quest for a newly made bass with old sound. I could be wrong though and might be wasting a great deal of time studying modern acoustics.

[Ken McKay]

Originally Posted by Ken Smith

The Storioni itself is as unusual inside as it is outside. Actually, the inside is even more unusual by the specs we have come to know.


2-The Ribs are 'Laminated' or 'doubled' and look to be original to the Bass judging by the oldest oxidation inside. The outer layer of the Ribs (2 of them only, one per side) are 'flat cut' Burled Veneer. The inner layer is cross grain (from Top to Back) Spruce. The Tone from the Ribs either tapping them or when playing the bass is sweet. The Sound is evident even from the sides of the bass.



So, what makes a great Bass sound great? I haven't a clue..



.

I knew that bass had laminated ribs, I could tell by the cracking. It is very interesting to see it in that old of an isntrument.