What do you want in a bass ?

[Matthew Tucker]

Thanks for sharing the information about the Storioni. Very interesting. I guess then, that with the reverse graduations, the centre arch must be quite high to support th pressure from the bridge? Unless the thicknesses are just quite thick all over and thicker at the edges.

Do you think the bass bar is original?

Can you describe the linings in the Storioni? are they continuous? Kerfed? Does the spruce lining run the full width of the rib, or stop at the linings? If it was original, I would have though that it would have been full width. What sort of rib thickness did he end up with?

[Ken Smith]

Originally Posted by Matthew Tucker

Thanks for sharing the information about the Storioni. Very interesting. I guess then, that with the reverse graduations, the centre arch must be quite high to support th pressure from the bridge? Unless the thicknesses are just quite thick all over and thicker at the edges.

Do you think the bass bar is original?

Can you describe the linings in the Storioni? are they continuous? Kerfed? Does the spruce lining run the full width of the rib, or stop at the linings? If it was original, I would have though that it would have been full width. What sort of rib thickness did he end up with?

The Bass bar does not look original. I suspect the graduations are not either, just my opinion. The Arching is medium I would say, not high. The wood grade however is superb. One authority called it 'Violin Grade'. I don't know the exact species either. I have it listed as just Italian Fir, 4-pc top. I think Arnold measured the Ribs and the outer burled maple is only about 1mm but from the neck block area looks like it varies in thickness a bit. The Spruce is about 2mm so it's 3mm total. I do not remember what the linings are like. I was too involved with the Top work to be planned out. The Rib construction had prevented long cracks which I heard are common with Guitar shaped single ribbed basses. Nothing is kerfed. This is no Guitar maker in here I can see. Another cornerless bass, or rather single ribbed bass I have does look like the maker or restorer was a guitar maker. Many of the old Italians were trained in making Violin types as well as fretted and possibly the Viols as well.

I will possibly be up at Arnold's within a week or so to bring another Bass up for some work. I can answer the lining question and others if Arnold doesn't beat me to the punch. There has been speculation by some that this Bass is Spanish rather than Italian. The only conflict there is, 'by who'? The grade of wood used and the workmanship doesn't ring any Spanish bells to anyone. Those speculations were made by other dealers that had a chance to buy the bass before me but didn't come up with the $$. The sound is as Italian to me as can be. If this is Spanish then where are the rest of them?

[Matthew Tucker]

it is interesting to me to speculate whether the doubling was added from the get go as a design feature. 2mm crossgrain doubling is a lot of work and careful joining of the edge seams. Perhaps the spruce was built onto the mould as a support first, and the thin veneer ribs bent onto that? That would make sense to me if the idea was to use a very thin veneer from the outset.

Otherwise if the doubling is not the full width of the rib, that would imply that the doubling was added after the thin ribs were bent and fixed into a mould, possibly as an afterthought.

[Ken McKay]

Originally Posted by Matthew Tucker

it is interesting to me to speculate whether the doubling was added from the get go as a design feature. 2mm crossgrain doubling is a lot of work and careful joining of the edge seams. Perhaps the spruce was built onto the mould as a support first, and the thin veneer ribs bent onto that? That would make sense to me if the idea was to use a very thin veneer from the outset.

Otherwise if the doubling is not the full width of the rib, that would imply that the doubling was added after the thin ribs were bent and fixed into a mould, possibly as an afterthought.

I would not call it doubling. They are laminated ribs. 1 mm burled maple is much too thin and fragile to be structural. This kind of construction was standard with guitars in those days. I doubt they made a complicated form to laminate the two. It could have been done with hammer technique flat and then bent to shape either dry or with a little coaxing from a hot pipe. 1mm venner with cross spruce would conform to the guitar shape pretty easily without any heat I would think. The skill necessary to get the burled veneer to 1mm was very high. A lot of the European shops had that skill level, especially the lute makers (Luthiers).

Sometime along the line that back strip was placed due to shrinkage dont you think?

[Ken Smith]

The Spruce looks to be part of the Rib construction and not a later addition. The Lining I believe is over this but like I mentioned before, I wasn't looking at it carefully being my mind was on more interesting things like the Top.

As far as the Back goes, we haven't looked inside that close at the Back center strip but it does look like it is original. The strip is actually cross grain like the Ribs are and for some reason, I cannot ID the wood used there. This is something else to look more closely at when we get the chance.

When the Block area gets cut for the mensur shortening, we will get a real good look at the cross section of that center section. Perhaps this will tell us something as to the origin or method used. This is one of the features that point to Spain but might be short sighted because many of the Spanish makers either learned in Italy or followed the Italian style. Hence, much of the Spanish work we see is actually early Italian. The Italians made many Guitars and Mandolins so I think it's a little hasty to jump across the Mediterranean every time we see something 'Guitarish' looking.

The Varnish on the Back and Ribs is just stunning. The Top has been over-varnished at some point.

I tried several times to reach a guy in Spain named RAMON PINTO COMAS whose shop is CASA PARRAMON. I was told he was the expert on Spanish makers. He never returned my emails. Maybe one of you out there reading this will have more luck with him than I have and find out if he knows of a maker in Spain that could of made this Bass. Recently I saw an old Italian Bass that had a similar Scroll like mine with that same center line. Still, it feels and sounds Italian to me from what I have seen, heard and played whatever that means.

[Al Smith]

After reading quickly through these 3 pages of posts I think the relevant question I have is..."what can make a difference"(arco) when trying to improve tone? Are the new basses we heard about at the ISB convention built for...tone the player can hear?... or tone to be amplified?... or tone at the back of the hall?

With any bass, what steps can be taken to "prioritize" where to start with regard to improving the "job".. "my bass"..
"needs to do"? (arco/orchestra)......maybe each bass is unique and must be treated as such....how does a player really get the experience/skills to evaluate what his bass can do?....any comments will be welcome..thanks.

-Al