" Name That Bass " aka "This OLD Bass"

[Ken Smith]

I just posted this in the Yankee thread but it actually ties both threads together as Yankee was one of the origins guessed on this Bass and by more than one person.

Can anyone here post a good scanned pic of the Elgar Calvin Baker Bass so we can compare it here. I am mainly concerned with the FFs.

Here is my post from the Yankee thread;

Has anyone here ever seen a Bass by Calvin Baker? There is one pictured in the Elgar book and looks like a German Gamba design.

C.Baker trained and/or worked with Asa White. I have seen a Bass that was by Asa White the same day I dropped off my Mystery Bass at Biase's almost 4 years ago and only vaguely remember the Bass. It was a small 3/4 or 5/8 and had a dark varnish and a Flatback.

I have mentioned before that the Scroll on the 'White Bass although smaller to match the Bass was nearly identical to my Scroll which is on a full sized Bass.

Although my Bass has some English features as well as an early French style outline, American has also been guessed on it several times but with no match other than the White Scroll and by the way, the FFs on the C.Baker Bass which look close.

One of the reasons I never considered New England as a real possibility was became I have never seen an American Bass as European looking as mine. The thing to know here is that the Boston and NY school of Violin makers were mainly European immigrants that trained in Violin making before coming to USA. Both Asa and Jay White though were trained by their father John who made about 12 or so violins and is noted as the first Violin Maker in Boston but an amateur. Jay and Asa are I think credited as being the first professional makers in that area. The Gemunder Bros. George and August came later. George from France and August from German. Both initially trained by their father in Germany. George also worked for Vuillaume before coming to USA.

One thing that concerns me is that many of the Basses in the Elgar book are falsely listed. He accepted pictures in the mail with any named attribution and published it as fact. The 5-String Gagliano Bass is actually an English Bass and has been sold at least twice since as an English Panormo by one of the sons. One of the large d'Salo Basses listed that's in a Canadian Museum is old Brescian but not d'Salo.

Can anyone here post a good scanned pic of the Elgar Calvin Baker Bass? (not the William Baker, that's English and it's the real deal as well)

[Ken Smith]

Ok, false alarm I guess on the American thing and probably on the French theory as well.

Recently, the main String instrument appraiser from one of the leading Auction houses dropped by Biase's shop and saw my Bass being worked on.

When this person saw the Bass he commented how beautiful it was overall and also how nice the FFs looked. He agreed with Biase that it's definitely some kind of English Bass but that's all I could get.

I asked Biase on the phone how good this guy's eye was for instruments and origins. Biase mentioned that he sees thousands of Violin family instruments from Violins thru Basses and appraises them for Auction so he knows a bit about them.

So, I guess the majority of the opinions from 'informed' people (several British Dealers/Luthiers, Biase who is working on it, a top Auction appraiser and a few others) agree that it's Olde English..

[Ken Smith]

For those of you that have been following the Thread of Mystery and massive Restoration I would like to give an update as to the Porgress of this olde English Bass.

I spoke with Biase last week and the body of the Bass, Top, Back and Ribs are all glued up together and repaired internally. Now he is doing the final measurements for the Block-cut and Neck-set. This will determine the String length and playability of the Bass. He still has to do the Neck-Graft but that will come after he has a correct Block to fit it in.

Here are some pics as a reminder of how the Body looked before it was disassembled. The After Pics will be posted when all done. The outer touch-up work is the last of course so although the Body is done, the Bass itself is nowhere near being completed, just further along, much further!

[Ken Smith]

I visited Biasie in NYC yesterday to inspect the progress and go over the final measurements of the Neck and String Length alterations. The Neck Graft for the Scroll is well under way and he even put some matching Varnish on the Maple Cheeks I had added. It looks like it belongs now so I was happy about that.

I looks as if we will not be doing any cutting to the Top or Back around the Block other than converting the Dovetail joint to a Mortise and deepening it. Some of the Top was cut under the Fingerboard area to accommodate the deeper Neck-set which before hand just sat on top of the Block and not in it.

The FFs are extremely wide and the old Bassbar we left in was set in a bit from the upper Eye rather than up against it. This Bass can actually take a 3/4 sized 150mm Bridge and sit mostly over the entire 'bar. If we use a 165mm Bridge like the one used before on the Bass is will sit slightly over the center of the 'bar. I would prefer the wider Bridge being that the Bass is so wide. If the 'bar was out further towards the edge of the upper F-eye, it would need something closer to a 180mm Bridge blank.

I expect to have this Bass in my hands to play and break-in over the summer. Somewhere along the way I will decide if I want a C-Extension on it. If it's a Bass I am going to use myself in the Orchestra then I will have the Ext. put on. The Graft is set so that the outer Scroll edge is even with the plane of the Neck under the Fingerboard joint which seems just right for the Extension to be fit around the Scroll.

After 4 years we now believe this Bass to be English and no longer a big Mystery with the exception of the actual maker and date. Because of this I have changed the name from 'Mystery Bass' to 'Olde English'. I have also altered the Webpage quite a bit on this as well as deleting all the question and answer stuff with the various 'blind' opinions given from around the world. This Thread as well as the original TB Thread says it all so the original information and search is not lost. Here is the link to the updated 'Olde English' page.

[Matthew Tucker]

Can you share any pictures of the back bracing/blocks/scars on that bass? I'd be very interested to see that.

[Ken Smith]

Originally Posted by Matthew Tucker

Can you share any pictures of the back bracing/blocks/scars on that bass? I'd be very interested to see that.

Matt, the Bass is all glued up now and just waiting for the Neck. I have never taken any pictures of the inside of the Top or Back. I did however take some pics of the Ribs while apart and posted them on my Website. The Neck Block was Shimmed internally so there would be room to cut a deeper mortise and save the existing Block. The Tailblock is the same as well, not replaced, touched or altered.

In this pic you can see the Tailblock which is relatively small as well as some of the Cornerblocks;


All of the Corner Blocks remain as well as the 'low' Bassbar and X-Brace that was in the Bass when I got it. Biase did however add some block wood in the X-area to beef up the center of the Back. He said the Tonetap was better afterwards than before.

The area in the Back by the Tailblock had virtually no wood left at all. He had to inlay a supportive piece inside, a piece outside flush with the Back and then cover it with a decorative bottom wood plate which I supplied from my maple stock (not shown). Most all of the internal repairs were done conventionally.

On the upper portion of the Back there was a very fine split starting at the upper Bout edge under that added Neck Button plate on the left (G side) and running thru that dark
horizontal scar and down a bit from there. The crack would not go together flush so on this he used a Violin repair technique as he explained. He sliced a sliver of wood from an area inside the Back near the crack and inlaid it outside where needed so that the wood and rays/grain would match up and not be visible after touch-up when turning the wood as the Flame moves in the light. He then inlaid another piece inside the back to fill the area used for the graft and then put a Patch over that as well. He also antiqued the new/old wood inlay thru that dark scar so it wouldn't be visible to the naked eye. It looked great when he showed it to me and I was quite impressed as well that he went the extra mile to do it the hard way which in the long run, was the best way.

All the pictures shown here were from before the Bass ever left my shop for this restoration over 4 years ago. I will post new pics when it's all done, I promise!

While I was there yesterday I got to play on a beautiful Bass by Paulo Antonio Testore. The Scroll however was not Testore but was told (and I agree) that it's from a much finer maker. He pointed out the details and said it's like Guarneri or Ruggeri, Cremona School. The Scroll was at least as old as the Bass (early 18th century). Then, to take some measurements and do some comparisons we used one of two big Giuseppe Guadagnini Basses he has and made comparisons for string length measurements and various stops. Then he pulled out a Violin by the same exact maker to show (and teach me) the similarities. The Arching was the same as far as curves go as were the FFs and Corners. Biase is also an international Violin dealer on a large scale. He always has several classics in his Violin, Viola and Cello stock as well as a few really great Basses. Although my trip was for my Bass in repair, it quickly turned into a lesson on Vintage Classic Italian makers and their traits. I have known Biase for my entire adult life and he is about 10 years my senior as well. I am truly grateful that he accepted this job. I have learned so much from this experience in the last four years.

[Ken Smith]

Here is a Bass with a very similar outline to mine;


What do you make of it?