History of the American Bass

[Ken Smith]

Originally Posted by Martin Sheridan

I had read that the Busetto cornered Prescott basses were a copy of a Klotz. The Klotz family continued generation after generation. I think I remember seeing a Klotz violin from the early 20th century. Some think the first Klotz studied in Cremona with Amati.

Yes Martin, think! It is written that he (the first Klotz maker) studied with someone (I will have to go back and find the name) in Italy that came from Fussen I believe. On the word or name 'Busetto' itself, this I find it hard to swallow. In the Elgar book he doesn't call it Busetto corners. He calls it 'lower rounded corners'. It was later I believe that some bass was named after the maker Giovanni Maria del Busetto. Busetto being a town in Italy. From reading about that maker I see no reason to believe he ever made a Double Bass much less that German looking one named after him that is either in Japan or Berlin. That bass has the form of early Mittenwald basses. The Bat wing FFs are Central European as well, not Italian. If that bass looks Italian in workmanship internally then maybe it's because the early Klotz maker Mathias trained in Italy. This is confirmed Klotz instrument here; http://www.myeasybass.com/publications/p_klotz.html

When looking at the work of del Busetto, what little has been found it seems way to early in time to be anything like that big bat winged F hole bass they named after him. Now what we have is confusion. Maybe started by the dealers as far as who made what or trained with whom including Stainer and the term 'Busetto corner'. What a mess!!

[Martin Sheridan]

I have never found any evidence of basses by Busetto either. We don't know how many studied with Amati because they are not mentioned in the census of his household if they didn't live with him, so I don't think anyone really knows where Klotz learned, but they like to make that Italian connection.
By the way, my cousin is married to an Italian, can I claim my basses as Italian? Sounds like a close enough connection to me, and I could raise my prices.
One that I find amusing is Morrelli who was a German who just used that name. Even his stuff brings more than a comparable German maker from the 30s even though everyone in the biz knows he was German. Any other time I'd remember his real name, but right now that would require me to think; it's been a long day and I want a drink before I do anymore thinking.
best,

[Ken Smith]

Originally Posted by Martin Sheridan

I have never found any evidence of basses by Busetto either. We don't know how many studied with Amati because they are not mentioned in the census of his household if they didn't live with him, so I don't think anyone really knows where Klotz learned, but they like to make that Italian connection.
By the way, my cousin is married to an Italian, can I claim my basses as Italian? Sounds like a close enough connection to me, and I could raise my prices.
One that I find amusing is Morrelli who was a German who just used that name. Even his stuff brings more than a comparable German maker from the 30s even though everyone in the biz knows he was German. Any other time I'd remember his real name, but right now that would require me to think; it's been a long day and I want a drink before I do anymore thinking.
best,

The Morelli basses were made in a German shop or two or three (over the years), imported into USA and THEN labeled Morelli. Some were stamped in Germany during production I suspect by request of the importer. The maker or shop recorded was Karl Hermann.

On Klotz it is known to a degree that M.Klotz the eldest Mittenwald maker trained with Fussen maker Giovanni Railich that had settled in Padua Italy. Klotz is believed to have trained first in Fussen or Vils or maybe even with Stainer and then spent 6 years in Padua before returning to Mittenwald.

The Families of Klotz, Neuner, Hornsteiner and Baader came one after another sometimes working with each other, in competition of each other or independently. Mittenwald for some time was THE world center for Violin production. This is one of the tangled webs we find in this business. Who did what when or where and to who or with whom.

I bet the Germans over there today could easily put this mystery in order much easier then we can but still, many things were just not well recorded.

As far as what Bass or BassES Prescott actually copied, dig up his grave and ask him!

My main point is that it's a bit irresponsible in this business to point every thing 'Bass' from Mittenwald to the Klotz family. They were first but were not alone for long as in the early 18th century, the demand grew as did the makers, families and firms providing instruments.

[Arnold Schnitzer]

I was in Mittenwald several years back, and walking around this most amazingly picturesque Alps town, I came upon a beautiful statue in the center of town. Who, you ask, is portrayed there? Matthias Klotz. Maybe somebody with better internet skills can find & post a picture here. BTW, Ken, I think you are right about Hornsteiner. I believe I was thinking of the more modern, commercial Neuner & Hornsteiner basses.

[Ken Smith]

Originally Posted by Arnold Schnitzer

I was in Mittenwald several years back, and walking around this most amazingly picturesque Alps town, I came upon a beautiful statue in the center of town. Who, you ask, is portrayed there? Matthias Klotz. Maybe somebody with better internet skills can find & post a picture here. BTW, Ken, I think you are right about Hornsteiner. I believe I was thinking of the more modern, commercial Neuner & Hornsteiner basses.

Well, like I mentioned in my other Thread Where are they??, these old Mittenwald basses are hard to find. Yes, the commercial ones made for export over the last 100 years or so are not so hard to find but the ones from before 1850 and back a century or so more are mostly still over there I would imagine.

[Arnold Schnitzer]

Here is the statue.

http://www.matthias-klotz.de/img/3-0/3-0-Denkmal200.jpg

[Martin Sheridan]

The newest Howard Core catalog has the picture from another angle.

Klotz was such a big name and there were so many of them that they were also 'copied' in the 19th and 20th century; mass produced crappy violins containing Kotz labels and of course basses too. I saw one about thirty years ago that was clearly a commercial bass with a false Klotz label. It was a good bass however.
Ken, I have a feeling that you're right and that many of those basses are still in orchestras over there. Maybe our German friend can enlighten us on that.