C-Extensions

[Kjetil Laukholm]

Originally Posted by Patrick Wasserman

To my understanding, the four types of C-extensions are a stenholm, one with chromatic locks, an E-lock and one sliding lock, and then a fingered extension (sorry for using the word lock, I forget the right term). Of these, I'm not really sure about the advantages and disadvantages. Either help me and decide which of these is most effective, or help my wallet and convince me to not do anything

Thanks,
Patrick

I feel every begginning extension player should learn on an extension with an e-stop only. You have to learn to play without the stops and you will learn faster if you have no chance to get lazy with the stops.
Get a latched extension or a keyed extension later.

A for letting other players cover low notes - I find it amateurish to show up on the job without the low notes.

[Ken Smith]

Originally Posted by Kjetil Laukholm

I feel every begginning extension player should learn on an extension with an e-stop only. You have to learn to play without the stops and you will learn faster if you have no chance to get lazy with the stops.
Get a latched extension or a keyed extension later.

A for letting other players cover low notes - I find it amateurish to show up on the job without the low notes.

Fingered is great for some things but having the latches allows you to lock the notes in place. In some pieces like Beethoven 3rd, 1st mvmt you need to start with C and lock it chromatically to Eb every 4 bar pattern playing the pedal note about 3 or 4 times each. Fingering it you might hit it good once or twice. Reaching back to lock it fast is only the first of each 4 bar pattern. It is in 'one' so you don't have much time. On the 6th Storm movement, you play it open. Two good examples from the same composer. The 5th and 9th are mixed open and closed from what I remember.

Personally, I would go for the best latched chromatic you can get that is easier to finger. This is better for the player all around and better for the Luthier knowing what to make from the start. The 3 basses I've used most in the last few years with Extensions were the Martini, Gilkes and Hart. The Gilkes was sold and maybe the best to play overall and a 41" length. The Martini and Hart are a toss up depending on the music. I used the Hart for my concert last week, the Martini the week or so before and its next to me here at home for a concert tomorrow. March and April, who knows? One of them or the Jacquet when it's done and if I can get used to it quick enough. All good classic Orchestra basses should have a high grade extension as standard. Like power steering and AC in a car. Can't go without it and get the job done.

[Kjetil Laukholm]

I also prefer a chromatic ext, but you have to be able to play those licks without one.
I just came back from a long tour of europe with the Copenhagen Phil with beethoven 3 on it and while it took a lot of work, the low licks in felt fine on the Hill and it had an e lock only. On my old Hachez I did as you do and latched each.

I see too many players using the stops as crutches and they never learn to play the fingered notes as securely as any other range on the instrument.

[Ken Smith]

Originally Posted by Kjetil Laukholm

I also prefer a chromatic ext, but you have to be able to play those licks without one.
I just came back from a long tour of europe with the Copenhagen Phil with beethoven 3 on it and while it took a lot of work, the low licks in felt fine on the Hill and it had an e lock only. On my old Hachez I did as you do and latched each.

I see too many players using the stops as crutches and they never learn to play the fingered notes as securely as any other range on the instrument.

Jumping back and forth on that section seems do difficult especially if you want to have any length of the note values fingered on and off the extension. That would cut the note values in half for me. Am I missing something here? Other than the Bass playing the Cello part an octave below, anything that helps you get there should be good. I see no shame in latching them and then having the pedal already latched for the other 2 or 3 notes in each run.

[Kjetil Laukholm]

No shame in latching (and I wish I had my old Hachez exension with locks while playing it) but one does need to be able to play it without. The style in that passage is somewhat short so the shift is not a problem. The only real problem is consistancy of pitch, which takes some work.

[Ken Smith]

Originally Posted by Kjetil Laukholm

No shame in latching (and I wish I had my old Hachez exension with locks while playing it) but one does need to be able to play it without. The style in that passage is somewhat short so the shift is not a problem. The only real problem is consistancy of pitch, which takes some work.

Well, even without the low note shifts, pitch does not come so easy..

[Kjetil Laukholm]

To quote Ed Barker, "as a bass player, your consistancy of pitch is equal to your standard of living"

[Sam Sherry]

Originally Posted by Kjetil Laukholm

I feel every beginning extension player should learn on an extension with an e-stop only. You have to learn to play without the stops and you will learn faster if you have no chance to get lazy with the stops.

KL, you've touched on something here that resonates for me.

I played jazz without an extension for thirty-some years. I've been playing jazz with an extension for about half a year. I often feel like I'm a beginner down there (and I like that feeling a lot).

[Ken Smith]

Originally Posted by Sam Sherry

KL, you've touched on something here that resonates for me.

I played jazz without an extension for thirty-some years. I've been playing jazz with an extension for about half a year. I often feel like I'm a beginner down there (and I like that feeling a lot).

Sam, join a community orchestra and get some practice on the extension. Playing jazz is most often choosing when you want to play what ever notes where. Playing Orchestra is playing the written page without improv. Many players in Orchestras play up the octave not having an ext. or 5er but for learning, play as much down as you can. Often for x-mas concerts I play extra low notes as it's not the master works and the conductor doesn't mind or even notice. The Brandenburg's are a good workout. Written for mainly Cello or 5-string are quite the workout for an Extension.

[Sam Sherry]

Ken --

An excellent suggestion and well-taken. I played in orchestras as a student, amateur and semi-pro and stopped about twenty years ago.

I love improvising. Orchestra music, for all the many moments of beauty it provides, is second choice. I'm lucky to be able to play and even luckier to be able to play jazz.

Play on, maestro!

[Ken Smith]

Originally Posted by Sam Sherry

Ken --

An excellent suggestion and well-taken. I played in orchestras as a student, amateur and semi-pro and stopped about twenty years ago.

I love improvising. Orchestra music, for all the many moments of beauty it provides, is second choice. I'm lucky to be able to play and even luckier to be able to play jazz.

Play on, maestro!

But what I mean now is to do it again being that you have a c-extension and get some classical use with it. That's all.

[Ken McKay]

I remember listening to Paul Warburton play quite often when I was taking lessons from him in Denver. On his Bohmann fiver, we (the audience) would be lucky if he hit one or two choice notes on the B string during an entire night of playing.

[Ken Smith]

Originally Posted by Ken McKay

I remember listening to Paul Warburton play quite often when I was taking lessons from him in Denver. On his Bohmann fiver, we (the audience) would be lucky if he hit one or two choice notes on the B string during an entire night of playing.

I am mainly referring to playing Orchestra, not jazz clubs. That's where the extension work comes in. For me, throwing in a low note in jazz is by choice and done often for self satisfaction. I know this from personal experience. Playing the written notes in an Orchestra is more of a job whether you're having fun doing it or not. I just got this Schubert piece for a chamber concert and there are Eb's in much of the first movement and and a D or two that I noticed. Playing the runs without the Ext. or a 5er sounds just wrong. de-tuning is not much of an option either unless you have no choice. The part should be played as written as I intend to do so.

If you wanna see the bass play some low notes, go to the Orchestra hall, not the beer hall!