French Bass Brace advice

[Adrian Levi]

In the interim I have decided that it would be the correct thing to just keep the brace as the maker had envisioned . Its French after all .

[Ken Smith]

Originally Posted by Adrian Levi

In the interim I have decided that it would be the correct thing to just keep the brace as the maker had envisioned . Its French after all .

So why ask? How many French basses with this single wide center brace have you seen before? Usually, they are taken out and re-braced traditionally and the sound is usually improved with it. Also, if you are repairing the center seam as it looks from your pics, you have to take all the braces out if more then one and repair the joint first. Bracing is done after the repairs.

Maybe better and full shot pics might help. You can see all of the bass but we can only see the parts that you show us.

[Thomas Erickson]

Originally Posted by Adrian Levi

In the interim I have decided that it would be the correct thing to just keep the brace as the maker had envisioned . Its French after all .

IMO it is just a brace, and changing it would most likely be an improvement. Since it has to come out to repair the seam, you might as well update.

[Adrian Levi]

Here are a couple of pics. The centre join had a piece of epoxied wood in it up to the big brace as can be seen in the pics. The back sits perfectly on the ribs now after I took it off (before it was being pulled in all directions from the epoxy).
Now what route to take.... full center seam inlay ???
Due to massive peer pressure I will replace the back brace .
Any advice on how many braces the bass will need , Im guessing 3 or will sturdy patches along the centre seam be an option ...?

[Ken Smith]

Originally Posted by Adrian Levi

Here are a couple of pics. The centre join had a piece of epoxied wood in it up to the big brace as can be seen in the pics. The back sits perfectly on the ribs now after I took it off (before it was being pulled in all directions from the epoxy).
Now what route to take.... full center seam inlay ???
Due to massive peer pressure I will replace the back brace .
Any advice on how many braces the bass will need , Im guessing 3 or will sturdy patches along the centre seam be an option ...?

Massive Peer pressure? I just gave you the advice based on seeing many French basses that were improved that way. One center brace, one lower and one upper usually and possible depending on the condition of the back and length, 2 upper ones. One at the bend and one at the blocks. The lower and mid/block brace to be shaped like a bassbar. The center is flat maybe 4-5" wide, 1/2" tall and the upper bend brace maybe 2" wide and beveled. Tastefully shaped, not lumber-like 2x4s.

The Center joint may need to be re-jointed and then, a strip placed in there to fill the gap. Also, how is the overhang of the Top on the bottom bouts over the Ribs? Overlaps or more flush like? If Flush, cut the ribs at the block and tuck them in slightly shorter. The lower corner blocks may need trimming under the Ribs as over time, the string pressure pulls the lower block forward bending the back at the bottom under that wide stair-step brace as well as twisting the corner blocks inwards. This is a common fault with old French basses and correction is not easy. The bass needs to be modified. Just like with blockless basses, if made with corner-cutting, money-saving techniques, it needs expensive corrections in restoration.

Just guessing here what you may need.

[Adrian Levi]

Originally Posted by Ken Smith

Massive Peer pressure? I just gave you the advice based on seeing many French basses that were improved that way. One center brace, one lower and one upper usually and possible depending on the condition of the back and length, 2 upper ones. One at the bend and one at the blocks. The lower and mid/block brace to be shaped like a bassbar. The center is flat maybe 4-5" wide, 1/2" tall and the upper bend brace maybe 2" wide and beveled. Tastefully shaped, not lumber-like 2x4s.

The Center joint may need to be re-jointed and then, a strip placed in there to fill the gap. Also, how is the overhang of the Top on the bottom bouts over the Ribs? Overlaps or more flush like? If Flush, cut the ribs at the block and tuck them in slightly shorter. The lower corner blocks may need trimming under the Ribs as over time, the string pressure pulls the lower block forward bending the back at the bottom under that wide stair-step brace as well as twisting the corner blocks inwards. This is a common fault with old French basses and correction is not easy. The bass needs to be modified. Just like with blockless basses, if made with corner-cutting, money-saving techniques, it needs expensive corrections in restoration.

Just guessing here what you may need.

Now thats interesting info ( the peer pressure is now at boiling point ) ....

When I sit the ribs on the back , the fit is good with approx 3-5mm overlap all round . Surprisingly with all the non original glues , cleats etc the bass seems to have regained its shape to a large extent . I will remove the middle bar and use it for the top repairs , there is a lot of wood to be had from it.
Ken when you talk about cutting the ribs at the 'block' to get a good plate fit are you talking about the end block ?

[Ken Smith]

Originally Posted by Adrian Levi

Now thats interesting info ( the peer pressure is now at boiling point ) ....

When I sit the ribs on the back , the fit is good with approx 3-5mm overlap all round . Surprisingly with all the non original glues , cleats etc the bass seems to have regained its shape to a large extent . I will remove the middle bar and use it for the top repairs , there is a lot of wood to be had from it.
Ken when you talk about cutting the ribs at the 'block' to get a good plate fit are you talking about the end block ?

Yes, but only if needed. I have a Bass that needs that now as well as needing some trim fit at the corner blocks from twisting as well. The Top is inside the Ribs now sitting on the internal half-edging with is stepped outwards to overlap the ribs.

[Adrian Levi]

In this case where the back and top are off at the same time , which should go on first , and is it ever ok to have to push the ribs in a bit whilst gluing and clamping if they are a little out of position in a few places?

Ken also if the ribs get cut down at the end block , then surely the top overhang will differ slightly i.e , maybe more overhang in the middle of the lower bout than at the end block due to the top not being exactly shaped to the rib dimensions anymore ...

[Arnold Schnitzer]

Originally Posted by Adrian Levi

Here are a couple of pics. The centre join had a piece of epoxied wood in it up to the big brace as can be seen in the pics. The back sits perfectly on the ribs now after I took it off (before it was being pulled in all directions from the epoxy).
Now what route to take.... full center seam inlay ???
Due to massive peer pressure I will replace the back brace .
Any advice on how many braces the bass will need , Im guessing 3 or will sturdy patches along the centre seam be an option ...?

Adrian, you have a tricky repair ahead of you. If the back is wide enough to fit on the rib assembly with some margin (overhang), then you'll just need to fill the big gap in the lower part of the back. If the back needs widening, you may want to add a strip down the center. Either is a difficult job. If you are going to fill the existing gap, start by gluing several temporary braces across the gap, using them to hold it together and flatten the area while you fit a patch. These braces should be about 6" or so long, attached with reversible glue.

[Ken Smith]

Originally Posted by Arnold Schnitzer

Adrian, you have a tricky repair ahead of you. If the back is wide enough to fit on the rib assembly with some margin (overhang), then you'll just need to fill the big gap in the lower part of the back. If the back needs widening, you may want to add a strip down the center. Either is a difficult job. If you are going to fill the existing gap, start by gluing several temporary braces across the gap, using them to hold it together and flatten the area while you fit a patch. These braces should be about 6" or so long, attached with reversible glue.

Adrian, here are some examples of those temporary blocks used on the HART that Arnold restored..


As you can see, the blocks were left in till after the crossbars were glued in and taken out only when.. Arnold? (you tell him..)

[Adrian Levi]

Ok now what to do .... ?

The back fit is textbook ie a healthy amount of overhang all round . If I clamp the neck and end blocks to the back it maintains perfect symmetry so I believe that with an extra pair of helping hands I will get the fit correct without having to apply unnecessary distortion to the ribs.
The gap you see at the lower bout join was originally filled with some wood that I removed / the gap must have been man made to try and cover up for some damage or something / i.e it is not caused by shrinkage etc..

My question is do I refill the gap with wood as was or plane the gap to an even width and insert a strip like on the pic Ken posted .
Obviously cosmetically the latter is the proper option or ?

[Thomas Erickson]

I'd be inclined to re-joint the back and put a tapered strip in. Heck I'd probably use ebony or something!

If the rest of the joint is already solid though, I guess you could inlay a slice into the gap - but it wouldn't look as nice and probably wouldn't be as solid long-term...

Basically I'd un-do everything and make the back perfect, then go from there. Since you have the top and back both off (right?), getting the back to be a nice perfect platform should be a lot more pleasant when you're putting things back together!