Fixes to reduce string tension.

[Ken Smith]

Excess Camber is the biggest problem with string tension that I see. Pressing down the notes further to reach the fingerboard is no fun than if the board was mostly flat. I prefer a flat board, let the strings pull the neck a little, the camber/board leveled if not as perfect as desired and then raise the bridge height if you need more clearance to the board, not scoop the fingerboard. That also weakens the neck as the ebony laminated to the maple = strength. Shave the ebony and you weaken the neck. Then when you play, the excess vibrations you feel under your fingers makes it feel that much tighter.

Moving the TP up is something I always liked as the TP absorbs more vibration the closer it is to the bridge making it seem softer to play. The raised saddle also helps but now we get into neck thickness, overstand and neck pitch in the block. You can almost go back to zero and re-build the bass from the block to the string to make it the softest as possible. Sometimes trying to fix a bass starting in the middle is difficult as you fight other factors that can't be done without a huge expense.

Strings are the least of my worries on this as I have played with stark 92s on many basses with a stiff straight neck/board with no problem. Then I had Weichs on another two basses with bent necks and big camber. That was like fighting a giant.

Get the neck/board camber fixed or minimized as much as possible and go from there.

Also, I have played 39.5 inches that was tight and 44.5 inches that was loose, same strings. It's not the length or the strings, it's the neck in 99.999% - 110% of the time, in my not so humble opinion!

[Eric Hochberg]

Originally Posted by Ken Smith

You can almost go back to zero and re-build the bass from the block to the string to make it the softest as possible. Sometimes trying to fix a bass starting in the middle is difficult as you fight other factors that can't be done without a huge expense.

Yes, I went through all the minor tweaks to little avail, finally got the new board and considered a neck reset, but think the expense-bass ratio for that might be overkill on this bass.

[Thomas Erickson]

This is a good thread - better than most discussion I've seen on the subject. But still, I feel obligated to note that there's still (like always) a lot of grey area and overlap on the issues of actual string tension, perceived string tension, string length (fingering/interval lengths), and instrument response ("tightness", "looseness"). Obviously all of these contribute to how easily an instrument plays, but they're radically different issues that may or may not influence one another or even have anything to do with a particular bass and whatever playability issues it might have.

I think we could add to the quality info here by trying to separate some of these different aspects of "playability" and clarify them - or maybe give them their own threads - if for no other reason than to not perpetuate some of the common fallacies that so often seem to involve the issue of "string tension".

Originally Posted by Ken Smith

Excess Camber is the biggest problem with string tension that I see. Pressing down the notes further to reach the fingerboard is no fun than if the board was mostly flat. I prefer a flat board, let the strings pull the neck a little, the camber/board leveled if not as perfect as desired and then raise the bridge height if you need more clearance to the board, not scoop the fingerboard.

Overlooking the fact that the shape of the fingerboard has no bearing on string tension, technically speaking, which makes my question a little off-topic for the thread, I'm not quite getting this - are you saying that with a new fingerboard you like to start with no camber (literally flat), and then evaluate it under tension and add minimal camber only as needed to get sufficient clearance - just sort of free-form? Rather than creating a particular "shaped" camber on the board from the start?

[Ken Smith]

Originally Posted by Thomas Erickson

This is a good thread - better than most discussion I've seen on the subject. But still, I feel obligated to note that there's still (like always) a lot of grey area and overlap on the issues of actual string tension, perceived string tension, string length (fingering/interval lengths), and instrument response ("tightness", "looseness"). Obviously all of these contribute to how easily an instrument plays, but they're radically different issues that may or may not influence one another or even have anything to do with a particular bass and whatever playability issues it might have.

I think we could add to the quality info here by trying to separate some of these different aspects of "playability" and clarify them - or maybe give them their own threads - if for no other reason than to not perpetuate some of the common fallacies that so often seem to involve the issue of "string tension".

Overlooking the fact that the shape of the fingerboard has no bearing on string tension, technically speaking, which makes my question a little off-topic for the thread, I'm not quite getting this - are you saying that with a new fingerboard you like to start with no camber (literally flat), and then evaluate it under tension and add minimal camber only as needed to get sufficient clearance - just sort of free-form? Rather than creating a particular "shaped" camber on the board from the start?

Ok, it's hard to address so many points in a single post but on my comment about starting flat, I prefer that. Double Basses do not have Truss Rods to adjust from string pull so the attempt is to build the Neck with FB as strong and straight as possible. Putting camber/curve into a FB before you know how much the strings will pull the neck and add to the camber is not the best way to go. You cannot put the wood back in the FB after scraping it out. It takes a few minutes to string up a bass. It takes many hours to replace the FB after butchering it unnecessarily. I have seen many basses come out of well known shops that in my opinion needed a new FB AFTER it was worked on. I am very adamant about my set-up work being as perfect as possible.

I do not at all consider this free-form if you are referring to having no method or measurement. In fact, the opposite is the case. Putting a camber into a FB before testing the string pull I would say IS Free-form because the string pull was NOT tested before cutting wood away that can't be put back. So, your perception of my comment was just the opposite in my opinion.

As far as science goes in relation to actual tension, throw that idea out. No one cares what the laboratory measurements are. The care only how the bass feels when you play it, period. If less camber or moving the Tailpiece or whatever makes the bass easier and/or softer to play, then that is less tension on your hand, wrist and tendons.

I once heard that if every person had to learn things on their own, people would die stupid! So, listen to the more experienced people when ever you can. Been there done that is a fact of life after you have been there and done that. From what I have seen, heard and read on line, too many new DB players are suffering from lack of knowledge, at the hands of misinformation and not having the correct knowledge that is already in existence.

With DB's, trial and error is often the way people set-up and adjust playability over time. Every bass is completely different and it takes what it takes to get it to its most favorable playing condition for a particular player.

The IS a great subject and the OP is a VERY experience Bassist, Musician and music educator with more experience than most. I feel great satisfaction when my ideas and experience can help another professional.

[Thomas Erickson]

Ok, thanks Ken for the clarification about fingerboard shape - I thought that was what you were saying, and I agree that starting with a concave fingerboard is counterintuitive.

As far as science goes in relation to actual tension, throw that idea out. No one cares what the laboratory measurements are. The care only how the bass feels when you play it, period. If less camber or moving the Tailpiece or whatever makes the bass easier and/or softer to play, then that is less tension on your hand, wrist and tendons.

Well, sure - on one hand there are so many measurements and variables that trying to apply much science to the thing is not going to be very productive. But that doesn't mean that we (bassists or luthiers, either one) should stick our heads in the sand rather than give some objective thought to the basic physical workings of the instrument, let alone blindly follow the fallacies and superstitions that float around the bass world and make no sense given a little consideration.

[Ken Smith]

Originally Posted by Thomas Erickson

Ok, thanks Ken for the clarification about fingerboard shape - I thought that was what you were saying, and I agree that starting with a concave fingerboard is counterintuitive.

Well, sure - on one hand there are so many measurements and variables that trying to apply much science to the thing is not going to be very productive. But that doesn't mean that we (bassists or luthiers, either one) should stick our heads in the sand rather than give some objective thought to the basic physical workings of the instrument, let alone blindly follow the fallacies and superstitions that float around the bass world and make no sense given a little consideration.

Sticking your head in the sand is a bit drastic. My point is not to call someone at MIT to help you set-up your bass. Go by feel and go with the flow! Measure what needs to be measured with simplicity and leave the Calculus in the classroom.

[Matthew Tucker]

To reduce tension on a 43" mensure why not first try Solo gauge strings? You can get solo Permanents.

[Thomas Erickson]

I think solo strings (tuned down) might be a bit drastic - I've played a few basses with solos tuned down in the past and found them to be pretty anemic. But, several strings come in light gauges. I know Helicores do, and apparently Flexocor92s do too, though I haven't seen them.