Bass Age vs Label - Antique Roadshow Moment

[Dave Irwin]

Thanks Adam & Ken.
My description of the sound probably won't do it justice and we're still getting acquainted but IMO, it has a pretty open/big sound considering it'ts fairly small body. There was a reputable player in the shop when I picked her up that made the same observation. I really enjoyed hearing him play it.

The D and G are stronger but It produces a pretty solid E, again good for it'ts size. I am working through a set up issue affecting the A. Under more brutal pizz, the A bottoms out a little slapping against the FB. The FB doesn't have too much left so I'm a little torn about another planing but will be having it worked on.
Under the bow, there is no issue. It seems to speak well all over.
I'm coming from a Shen Willow, which I consider to be very resonant. This bass matches that but sounds much darker and woodier as would be expected.

It currently has old Belcantos on A-G and maybe a Corelli on the E. not sure.
Will be switching out to some Evah's orchs I have. I might try to get some Evah weichs cause I'm not sure it takes that much to pull sound out of this bass.

There is a bit of a wolf just north of G#, pretty out of the way.

So far I'm very happy. I wish I could find some pics of other basses from the maker but I guess the mystery will have to persist.

Thanks again for looking.

Dave

[Ken Smith]

Here is the schocker for you. That label which has #48 on the lower right corner is pictured in a book I have. Jalovec 'German & Austrian makers' on page 81 and on page 276 of his general encyclopedia of makers. This maker died in 1866.



Is that your Bass? The FF is not there.

On the bass on Ebay, the Label is the same, worn, torn and burnt to look old. It too is the exact same label, #48 but the 8 is torn a bit.



This is why I do not believe all labels in instruments to be true. Dealers copy them from books or steal them from other instruments and then put them in something to increase their value or make them easier to sell. That FF looks like a brand new burned in stamp. Not even 150 years of dirt clogging the letters. Suspicious?

[Ken Smith]

By the way, here is what an actual old label from that period would look like. Don't be so easily fooled. When the bass looks half the age of the label, it probably is!

This bass was heavily used professionally until just recently and has 5 different repair labels. Two of them from the 19th century and 3 of them from the early 20th century. Being repaired over and over again wears even the label, especially if they are moved for repairs and then replaced. The 2 old ones shown look to be on old Vellum, not paper from pulp.

[Matthew Tucker]

Originally Posted by Ken Smith

Here is the schocker for you. That label which has #48 on the lower right corner is pictured in a book I have. Jalovec 'German & Austrian makers' on page 81 and on page 276 of his general encyclopedia of makers. This maker died in 1866.
[...]
On the bass on Ebay, the Label is the same, worn, torn and burnt to look old. It too is the exact same label, #48 but the 8 is torn a bit.

FWIW the first label looks to me to be #43 not #48 which would make the second label, if #48 (hard to tell), consistent with the one year later 1865.

[Ken Smith]

Originally Posted by Matthew Tucker

FWIW the first label looks to me to be #43 not #48 which would make the second label, if #48 (hard to tell), consistent with the one year later 1865.

The actual label in the book is not dated, only numbered. Not all makers dated their labels. It looks obvious that both labels have been doctored up or lost a bit when they were copied from the book.

If #48 is 1864, then why would #43 be 1865? I am sure they are both #48, copied from the same book. Both faked duped labels. Neither bass has any relation to those labels, but century or country.

The Jalovec Books came out around 1960 or so. The basses might or might not be older.

[Dave Irwin]

Ken, the 48 is the house number at the end of the address line. I saw the label in a book as well. Maybe the same book. I think it was printed in the 20's or 30's.
I see what you mean about the brand. Looks like I'm busted. Oh well, I paid 20th century $ for it so it's ok. The ebay bass better not be authentic. At $4,600, that would really suck.
I had contact with a player in the Austrian Philharmonic and he said his teacher had a Feilnreiter. I couldn't get any pics though.

BTW, what was the period when basses typically got the raised trim/strips on the sides?

Originally Posted by Ken Smith

The actual label in the book is not dated, only numbered. Not all makers dated their labels. It looks obvious that both labels have been doctored up or lost a bit when they were copied from the book.

If #48 is 1864, then why would #43 be 1865? I am sure they are both #48, copied from the same book. Both faked duped labels. Neither bass has any relation to those labels, but century or country.

The Jalovec Books came out around 1960 or so. The basses might or might not be older.

[Matthew Tucker]

Peter Bockius (germany) plays one perhaps he has photos?

[Dave Irwin]

So I can't explain the brands not being in your photo Ken. But check out the markings/stains around the top of the label. They appear to me to match!
Note the 3 spots to the right of the "cleat?" I dunno my inerds...
And the "L" facing down on the right.


@Matt, I emailed him. We'll see if he responds with a pic!