The 5-String Double Bass

[Ken Smith]

Cool stuff. When they start writing for the 7 string in Orchestra, that's the day I retire for good..lol

[David Powell]

Originally Posted by Ken Smith

Cool stuff. When they start writing for the 7 string in Orchestra, that's the day I retire for good..lol

Doubtful that will happen in our lifetimes, so play it to the end of the piece!

But going back to the Bach Brandenburgs: I think there are some with only a continuo score, and I'm guessing that those or even the ones with the DB score might have been scored for G violones with 5 or 6 strings. It's hard to tell because the coninuo was sometimes done on a harpsichord or whatever was available. There is of course still the question of which octave was intended, but I haven't found much on that. And that is not as significant an issue as that those parts were probably scored for an instrument that through crossings could play the octave passages more easily. Apparently violones could be tuned several ways, but all fourths wouldn't be too different from the more standard 3 fourths, a major third, and then two fourths. Just a crazy theory. What is a good source for scores of the Bach pieces? I'd love to give those a look. [EDIT: Never mind, I found them. Public domain. Love the Internet!]

[David Powell]

OK, I finally have satisfied myself on this question, while I'm sure it will remain one of scholarly debate for some. After all, one must write a thesis on something to get a PhD! Malcolm Boyd's book on the Brandenburg concertos suggests that a violone grosso was required, probably one with only 4 (?) strings that had the lowest string tuned to C', but that different instruments were used depending on which Concerto it was. In fact 3 different instruments are referenced. The scores I was able to find online (William Rust) suggest that there were violone grosso, violone, violone de ripieno (that distinction evades me as it seems to be contextual). Certainly these distinctions had some specific meaning in Bach's day. Boyd's book is copyrighted material, but if the link works it takes you to the specific page that talks about this. He also clears up the question of which octave the score refers to. But in the end the part is more important than which instrument we play it on. We don't have 3 to choose from today unless we collect rare and expensive reproductions. In fact what can't be done on either a 5 string or a 4 with C extension can likely be played on a cello.

Planyavsky and Borgir would seem to support that the instruments in use in Germany in Bach's time were indeed tuned in 4ths across all strings like our modern 5 string bass, but were tuned to different notes. An instrument like that 6 string Pöllmann would probably cover all of the Brandernburgs with ease, (except for the pesky unintended double stops). A 5-er would be the next best thing but require more shifting. A C extension? Bach would think that was a curious thing, I think, but it might work in a pinch for one of the Concertos specifying the violone grosso.

I know this is a somewhat cross thread response, but the usefulness of a 5 string instrument is certainly part of this. If I had to choose one and only one Double Bass instrument to play, maintain, and express myself on, it would be a 5 string one tuned in 4ths. But that little Pöllmann violone would be a nice second fiddle. And it appears that tuning in 4ths across all strings might be quite acceptable from a historical perspective of German tradition. A nice little 6 string acoustic bass guitar for some of the Brandenburgs!

[Anselm Hauke]

Originally Posted by David Powell

I know this verges on insanity, but a French luthier has made one with 7,

ok, i´m the winner: 38 strings!
http://www.bazantar.com/instrument.html

[David Powell]

Originally Posted by Anselm Hauke

ok, i´m the winner: 38 strings!
http://www.bazantar.com/instrument.html

I thought about mentioning that since Mark Deutsch has modified a 5 string DB. It's a really interesting instrument. I've had his CD for over a year. "Fool" is an interesting meditational composition that is conceptually related to the life cycle. Some moments are a bit arresting, perhaps disturbing. I enjoy listening to it in the odd moment it and there is some good double bass playing on there. In the USA, it would probably be classified as "New Age" music. The Bazantar sounds very unusual. It's like a huge viola d'amore. One of the most interesting things on his site is his chart of the harmonic series vs. equal temperament. It's one of the best graphical depictions of pure harmonic relations I've ever seen.

If you haven't heard the whole composition, Anselm, it might be worth a listen, or at least I was quite pleased with the CD.

[Jeff Tranauskas]

Originally Posted by Anselm Hauke

ok, i´m the winner: 38 strings!
http://www.bazantar.com/instrument.html

Anselm, I agree.
You are the winner!