A Late Bultitude, #3 (a keeper!) "Better Late than Never!"

[Eric Swanson]

Originally Posted by Ken Smith

The Stick will get a full compliment of Silver and Leather for a new Grip...

Ken, have you ever noticed a change in "feel" or tone when changing grip types on a bow?

I played my Morizot for a long time with no grip, which was how I received it from my teacher. I recently had it gripped with the lightest silver wire and leather, very nicely, by Eric Lane. Eric also weighted the tip slightly to keep the balance point the same (offsetting the grip's mass).

I have to say that I think that the bow was sweeter before I had the leather and silver put on. The stick seems slightly dampened by the extra mass and doesn't feel as lively in the hand. I am not talking about the extra grams of mass or the bow being heavier; I am talking about the stick's vibration and its feedback loop with the strings/bass. Because I liked the bow's feel before, I am seriously considering having the work undone when I go in for my next rehair...

Ken, or anyone else, with any experience with tone/feel changing with grip types?

[Ken Smith]

Originally Posted by Eric Swanson

Ken, have you ever noticed a change in "feel" or tone when changing grip types on a bow?

I played my Morizot for a long time with no grip, which was how I received it from my teacher. I recently had it gripped with the lightest silver wire and leather, very nicely, by Eric Lane. Eric also weighted the tip slightly to keep the balance point the same (offsetting the grip's mass).

I have to say that I think that the bow was sweeter before I had the leather and silver put on. The stick seems slightly dampened by the extra mass and doesn't feel as lively in the hand. I am not talking about the extra grams of mass or the bow being heavier; I am talking about the stick's vibration and its feedback loop with the strings/bass. Because I liked the bow's feel before, I am seriously considering having the work undone when I go in for my next rehair...

Ken, or anyone else, with any experience with tone/feel changing with grip types?

The weight in the Tip could be your problem. The Grip is only a few grams and will 'lift' weight from the Tip as far as the balance point goes. That is one way to battle a Tip heavy Bow. On one of my Bows (the Eibert), Biase put thicker Silver wire and now the Bow actually feels lighter. It's 152 grams with the rubber, 146 without and easier on the hand than some of my 140s. That Bow felt heavy 'before' the heavier wire was put on mainly because it was Tip heavy. Now it's one of my favorite Bows and the one I compare all Bows to when testing including Lipkins and Bultitudes.

[Eric Swanson]

Good thoughts and experience. Thanks for sharing it.

My Morizot's balance was always lovely...it always seemed to play itself.

With the new grip, the tip was weighted ONLY to keep the balance point the same...so it didn't make the bow more tip heavy...actually kept things as they were, in terms of balance.

The bow is light; 126 grams without the grip/tip balance; 130 grams with the grip/weight. While I know that this is lighter than usual, it never felt "too light" before - it was always a bow that just worked well.

What I am puzzled by is the reduction in vibratory feedback the grip (and/or tip weight?) seems to have caused. The bow just feels deader and less "effortless" than before. I wonder if the grip (and/or tip weight) is dampening the stick itself in some bad way, hurting the bow/string/bass feedback loop. It surely feels that way...

I don't know what to do but to reverse course and have the stuff taken off the stick. Ironically, I had the grip put on to try to maintain the bow well, as its current steward. Now, I fear that the grip has harmed its function. Oops. Luckily, it is easily undone.

So, I was wondering in all of your many experiences with bows, etc., if you had noticed a change in resposiveness with a change of grip types, or in my case, going from no grip to a silver/leather wrap.

Thanks again, for sharing your experience.

[Ken Smith]

Originally Posted by Eric Swanson

Good thoughts and experience. Thanks for sharing it.

My Morizot's balance was always lovely...it always seemed to play itself.

With the new grip, the tip was weighted ONLY to keep the balance point the same...so it didn't make the bow more tip heavy...actually kept things as they were, in terms of balance.

The bow is light; 126 grams without the grip/tip balance; 130 grams with the grip/weight. While I know that this is lighter than usual, it never felt "too light" before - it was always a bow that just worked well.

What I am puzzled by is the reduction in vibratory feedback the grip (and/or tip weight?) seems to have caused. The bow just feels deader and less "effortless" than before. I wonder if the grip (and/or tip weight) is dampening the stick itself in some bad way, hurting the bow/string/bass feedback loop. It surely feels that way...

I don't know what to do but to reverse course and have the stuff taken off the stick. Ironically, I had the grip put on to try to maintain the bow well, as its current steward. Now, I fear that the grip has harmed its function. Oops. Luckily, it is easily undone.

So, I was wondering in all of your many experiences with bows, etc., if you had noticed a change in resposiveness with a change of grip types, or in my case, going from no grip to a silver/leather wrap.

Thanks again, for sharing your experience.

The Tip is a most sensitive area. I think that made the difference putting a weight in there. Now I just send my Bows to Sue and let her get it done the right way. Tip weights are only done to make up for a light less-dense stick. That will probably dampen the sound more than any grip down at the thickest part of the stick near the frog. Don't you think your hand on the Bow dampens it too? Imagine something muting the Tip. That's your added weight in there I think!

[Eric Swanson]

Ken, all you have said makes sense. I will talk with the bowmaker along those lines and schedule a rehair and tip weight removal.

We'll see about the grip - that's easy enough to take off. If the grip IS still dampening the stick, after the tip weight is removed, perhaps a grip other than the leather/wire would have a lesser effect. As you say, since one's hand is touching the stick at that point, concerns about the grip throwing of the balance point seem a bit misplaced (sic)...the grip/hand really is more the axis of rotation, not the balance point of an unheld bow, floating in space...

Frankly, it never bugged me not to have a grip on the bow. In having a grip installed, I was just trying to be a good steward for this precious object. Ah well .

Thanks again for sharing your experience. It was very helpful to me.

[Carlos Henriquez]

I was just talking to John Scheafer, and he said Dave Pearlman and him brought most of the Bultitude's into NYC in the mid 60's. He said they bought about 10 to 15 of his bows then costing 100 dollars!! Now, they are hard to find and costing about 5k and up if in good condition.

[Ken Smith]

Originally Posted by Carlos Henriquez

I was just talking to John Scheafer, and he said Dave Pearlman and him brought most of the Bultitude's into NYC in the mid 60's. He said they bought about 10 to 15 of his bows then costing 100 dollars!! Now, they are hard to find and costing about 5k and up if in good condition.

In the Bultitude/Hill book it is mentioned that he was commissioned to make 30 bass bows a year for USA and shortly after that, refused to make anymore. He preferred to make bows one at a time for each individual player. Bultitude made over 2,000 handmade bows including a small percentage of them being for bass. The one I just got is not anything like the model from the '60s of which I've owned two of them. This latest one is something off the charts. Sue Lipkins even commented that it was an oddity and she has handles more bass bows than most.

Funny thing about the book I mentioned above. I ordered it either between having the 1st and 2nd bow or after I got the 2nd. The Book was on back order. By the time the Book came in, I no longer had a Bultitude bow. That was a real bummer for me. Waiting to read about my favorite maker (next to Sartory) and then not having a Bow to match the Book. A year or so later, I find one, my 3rd Bultitude Bass Bow. Now, I wanna read the book.. lol

When I showed the 1st Bow to Duane Rosengard a few years ago he mentioned that it was the model that Schaeffer had commissioned Bultitude to make in the '60s only my Bow came from London. Apparently not all of them were shipped over here unless that Bow made a trip home sometime between 1962 when it was made and 2003 or so when it was purchased at Auction in London. This is just another example how instruments 'come to be'. Players demand!

This one I have now is very unusual and has the thinnest Tip I have ever seen including German Bows. Yet, the Bow plays and draws a sound to die for. Like Bultitude told Brian Tunnicliffe (another British bow maker who knew Bultitude) towards the end of his life, "I'm gonna leave a few things for the so called experts out there to think about". This Bow of mine I believe is one of those things being the latest Bultitude Bass Bow we have seen or heard about to date and the oddest as well.

[Eric Swanson]

Follow up on Ken's recommendation about my Morizot, the grip, the feel, the bow's sound, etc.

Just got the bow back from the bowmaker today. Had him go halfway back to where it was before, for now, putting the curve back where it was (he had bent it a bit more, to his liking, but it ddn't work for me) and removing the tip weight.

We left the grip on for now...thinking that it is easy enough to take that off if I feel the need. I started by following Ken's practical point that one's hand is already dampening the stick at the point of contact anyway, so the grip is probably changing things in a more negligable way.

Well, Ken was spot on. The stick has come back to life and works well again, thankfully.

Jury is stil out on whether or not to keep the grip. It does seem to dampen the stick slightly, from where it was before, but the tip weight was definitely the major culprit. Most of the bow's former, nice, clear sound is back.

No charge from the bowmaker, Eric Lane...a very skilled and cool cat. He got what I was talking about right away and started talking about "inadvertantly changing the bow's nodes of vibration", etc. as soon as I mentioned a suspicion that the tip weight and/or grip was messing up the stick.

He had put the tip weight in to counteract the new grip he put on...all with the best intentions, on his part. Interestingly, the balance doesn't seem "off" at all, without the tip weight, with the grip. So, really, the "balance point" of the resting bow is relatively unimportant in this case. As Ken implied, the contact point with the hand is the axis of rotation, anyway, when the bow is in play. Static balance be hanged!

Eric Lane encouraged me to try the stick for awhile and bring it back as needed. I am tempted to have him pull the grip off, but I will be prudent. He did such a nice job on it, I certainly don't take removing his work lightly.

Thanks, Ken.