What do you want in a bass ?

[Matthew Tucker]

Originally Posted by Martin Sheridan

Stradivari and before him, the Amati, had definite ideas about F hole placement. [...] This was almost always ahered to, .

But do we know whether his ideas were based on an aesthetic design principle that happened to work OK, so he stuck with it ... or whether he tried dozens of different sizes and placements (keeping all other things equal, of course) until he found the BEST one? I tend to think the former is more likely. We don't have any evidence of strads with experimental FF hole placement, do we?

In relation to basses, there are SO MANY variations in corpus volume, plate shape, string length, top graduation, internal bracing, rib depth, wood choice etc that I can't see how any of the placement rules Strad used could apply just like that.

In fact if there was an optimum FF placing and size for a bass, you'd think that someone would have found it by now!

Actually that's what I love about basses. The lack of a formula.

[Martin Sheridan]

I don't know that anyone knows for sure if this was aesthetics or acoustics, but they do arrive at the the acoustic center of the instrument more or less.

I've always loved basses partly because of the variations in size and design. I'm glad we don't all have to make the same one over and over again, yet it is sometimes a source of frustration that the bass you just spent six months on is too big or too small for someone, but they always fit somebody! This is true also with violas which vary a lot in size and shape. Violins and cellos are almost completely standardized.

[Matthew Tucker]

Originally Posted by Martin Sheridan

I don't know that anyone knows for sure if this was aesthetics or acoustics, but they do arrive at the the acoustic center of the instrument more or less.

What's the "acoustic centre"?

[Ken McKay]

Matthew do you have Sacconi's book?

Should I post my f-hole taping experiment here, it is kinda anti-climatic?

[Matthew Tucker]

No i don't have Sacconi's book. Is it a bible I should have?

I'd love to see/hear your experiment. But I fear we're derailing the thread a bit...

[Matthew Heintz]

Other than aesthetics, is there a reason that we don't see more open peg boxes? It seems like the ease of string changes and reduced scroll-weight would be particularly nice for basses with extensions. In any case, I'd add that to my list of "features" that I'd want in a bass (for whatever that's worth).

[Arnold Schnitzer]

It makes the scroll really weak and prone to breakage. That's why you don't see that feature more often.

[Ken McKay]

Originally Posted by Matthew Tucker

No i don't have Sacconi's book. Is it a bible I should have?

I'd love to see/hear your experiment. But I fear we're derailing the thread a bit...

From the Sacconi book, " The position of the ff holes is as fundamental to the quality and power of the sound of the instrument as the archings are. For this reason in order to position the ff holes correctly, Stradivari used to study their dimensions and exact position for every single model by means of a series of trials and experiments until he reached a definitive solution. He would then establish this by a special drawing on paper which reproduced the centre (bridge area) of the instrument with its ff holes correctly positioned. This positioning was also determined by finding the point of balance of the finished belly without the bass-bar having been atached. In fact in my experience, the notches of the ff holes always occur in the ideal transverse line which divides the upper and lower surfaces into two areas of equal weight." This is what Sacconi called the acoustic center which is which is south of the measurement center.

[Matthew Tucker]

Sounds like a reasonable theory, and easy to test. So do we suppose Sacconi removed the bass bars of dozens of strads to develop this experience? But why with no bass bar? And so if Strad chose to put his notches at the N-S balance point, how did he come up with length, width, shape, angle? Is the balance point observation a convenient rule of thumb or is there an underlying functional factor?

Or did Strad cut his FFs the way he liked them to look, then graduate his tops so that they balance across the FF notches?

Well it still sounds neat, so maybe I'll do that measurement on a top next time I have one off. How does your cornerless bass rate in that dimension, Ken? Is the top still off? Can you measure it?