"Flexocor strings info from Ken Smith" (from TB, 2005)

[Ken Smith]

Regular Flexocor is the old formula now called just Flexocor or Flexocor 92s. The string they call Original Flexocor is NOT at all anything like the Flexocor of the 60s and 70s. The current regular Flexocor or 92s is the closest thing to the old formula. Pirastro seems to lazy I guess to re-name their brands. Maybe they are concerned it will confuse us even more. They should switch and call the 92s 'Old Formula' and the Originals should be called NEW Flexocor which are heavier gauge than the Medium regular 92. Because of the thickness they DO sound darker after they break in BUT the 92s Thick/Stark would be even darker sounding right out of the gate and after the break in as well.

The combination I referred to on my Shen was all Regular 92s Flexocor with Medium G,D and A with the E being the Stark/Thick gauge. I don't know why Lemur calls them 'thick' when Pirastro prints 'Stark' on the package. Maybe it means 'thick' in English.

I have the Original Flexocor (dark Blue threads) on my Martini and it is currently getting an Extension Fitted. I will use a Permanent 'E/C' on it to start since I already had it on the Morelli and took it off. When I get the chance and these get old or I get tired of them, I would like to try regular Medium Flexocors on that Bass as the 'E/C' Ext. string is .100 instead of .097 on the standard 'E' length string. I don't know why they do that. I think .100, .102 or even .105 would be a better match for the medium set.

I will update this thread after I get the Martini back.

[Ken Smith]

Ok, as promised I am posting some results and an addition.

On the Martini with the Orig flex and Perm E/C, the sound was nice unless you had been using reg Flex Starks. I could hear the edge on each the note when a great player from the NYC Ballet was trying the Martini up at Arnolds as well as when Arnold or myself played it. It did not at all sound bad. It just didn't sound as good as it would after changing strings. The Martini has good mids in the tone and needs the darker Stark reg Flexs for my ear. I soon put the reg Flex Starks on all 4 strings and the sound was darker, smoother and more even than I had ever heard the Bass. I think Arnolds Ext and some tweaking was partly to blame! I prefer this set to all other Pirastro strings now personally.

A few months ago I sent a very old set of Flexocors to Pirastro to test. They looked like the reg Flex but the gauges on all but the G were much heavier than even the Starks. Last week, Pirastro sent me a letter saying 'These are pre-1991 strings and are similar to our new Orig Flex" and sent me a set as a thank you for me efforts. I now went and measured the Orig Flexs and noticed the gauges were similar but the sound is not. I still think the reg Flex is the closest sound to the Old Flexs pre 1991. I just hope the keep offering the Stark gauges as they seem to be the best I have found.

[Ken Smith]

It has been over a year since I did these tests and had had the chance to play a few more Basses with these Stark Flexs on them. The current list includes the Martini, Dodd, Gilkes, Bisiach, Loveri and Prescott. I have also used regular Flex gauge with only the Stark 'E' on a few Basses including my Shen and Storioni attributed cornerless Bass. On a few basses I have tried Reg Flex G and D with Permanent A and E on my Martini, Gilkes and Shen.

So, what do I think works best? I have no clue! My ears are shot and my fingers and hands hurt from changing strings..lol

BUT, I am now liking the Stark E-only mix on the Storioni and the complete Stark set on the Martini. Why? Because each Bass feels best at a certain tension and at certain times of the year. This due sometimes to the Sound Post being tighter or looser as the Bass moves thru the seasons.

So, what's your thoughts on this?

[Drake Chan]

After going through all those string changes, you finally come to the conclusion that the best strings are, well, you don't know. It all depends on the conditions you stated, right?

My thoughts on this matter are that you really do have to find a good string setup if your current string setup is not making the grade for you. But at the same time, the quest to find the perfect string down to a T will not exactly help you that much.



For example, on my school's plywood Christopher, I ordered a set of Kolstein Varicores just to see how the strings were. I was interested in 70% arco/ 30% pizzicato, and I heard these strings were okay, but not great for pizzicato, and decent for arco. Actually, there wasn't much info at all on the strings, except that the G-string was nasally, but has been improved since.

The result? The strings were pretty good for arco and pizz, just as I expected. Not great, but just good. The G-string was very nasally sounding. I expected it to mellow out over the months. It never did.

I eventually jumped the gun and bought a used Flexocor set, minus the E-string. I replaced the Varicore G with the Flexocor G and voila, problem solved. The best G string I have ever heard and played.

The only other problems? I don't have a car, and haven't gotten this bass setup in years. So when playing the G-string from the A-flat to E-flat with the bow, the string buzzes. A lot. A proper setup will probably solve this problem. Also, this is a plywood bass, so its arco sound is not very good.

My school's other bass is a 1960's-ish carved Juzek. Its major problem before was that it had the oldest set of D'Addario Helicore Orchestrals on them. The sound with the bow was excrucating and screechy.

I replaced the strings last year with a new set of Helicore Orchestrals. The set, given only a bit used from another bassist, seemed to be a lighter guage set. When I first played it, I still found the sound somewhat scratchy compared to the Varicores (minus the G-string).

About a year later, guess which bass I'm playing? The Juzek. And the reasons?

Well, for one thing, I just couldn't stand the buzzes on the Christopher anymore.

But now I found the Helicores to be not just a tolerable string, but a pretty good all-around string. One reason is that they are on the carved Juzek, a major step up from the Christopher. But the other reasons are that I started using a better bow, and my arco technique has improved since a year ago.




So what's my point for this winding post? Basically, with enough practice and better equipment (bass and bow), the string choice becomes less relevant.

You definitely have to find a decent string setup to go along with a good bass and bow. But once you do, you should put less time towards finding that perfect string setup and more time towards practicing to improve your technique. At the end of the day, the time that you spend practicing will help you a lot more than the time that you spend looking for better strings.

Ken, you yourself said after looking and looking, you had no clue what were the best strings out there, just that you found a very good string setup for your basses



So does looking for the perfect string setup do any good? Definitely.

Because, if it were not for bassists' (not just us, all musicians) neurotic and obsessive tendency towards finding the best strings possible, the string manufacturers would settle for making 'good enough' strings. Instead, they give us a pretty large variety of choices for strings, and they also work on introducing new strings as well as improve old strings based on the feedback we give from our preferences and observations on what works and what doesn't.

[Thomas Erickson]

Originally Posted by Ken Smith

Ok, as promised I am posting some results and an addition.

On the Martini with the Orig flex and Perm E/C, the sound was nice unless you had been using reg Flex Starks. I could hear the edge on each the note when a great player from the NYC Ballet was trying the Martini up at Arnolds as well as when Arnold or myself played it. It did not at all sound bad. It just didn't sound as good as it would after changing strings. The Martini has good mids in the tone and needs the darker Stark reg Flexs for my ear. I soon put the reg Flex Starks on all 4 strings and the sound was darker, smoother and more even than I had ever heard the Bass. I think Arnolds Ext and some tweaking was partly to blame! I prefer this set to all other Pirastro strings now personally.

A few months ago I sent a very old set of Flexocors to Pirastro to test. They looked like the reg Flex but the gauges on all but the G were much heavier than even the Starks. Last week, Pirastro sent me a letter saying 'These are pre-1991 strings and are similar to our new Orig Flex" and sent me a set as a thank you for me efforts. I now went and measured the Orig Flexs and noticed the gauges were similar but the sound is not. I still think the reg Flex is the closest sound to the Old Flexs pre 1991. I just hope the keep offering the Stark gauges as they seem to be the best I have found.

Ken - do you know if there's a way to tell the pre-1991 flexos from the current "original flexo"? I have a very old D and G that I love, but I'm not sure if they're just really well used (former teacher took them off his orchestra bass, gave 'em to a broke student (me) who played 'em for years) or a different string altogether because they seem better than the current "originals". They measure about <.06 for the G and >.07 for the D. Digital caliper isn't very accurate.

[Ken Smith]

Originally Posted by Thomas Erickson

Ken - do you know if there's a way to tell the pre-1991 flexos from the current "original flexo"? I have a very old D and G that I love, but I'm not sure if they're just really well used (former teacher took them off his orchestra bass, gave 'em to a broke student (me) who played 'em for years) or a different string altogether because they seem better than the current "originals". They measure about <.06 for the G and >.07 for the D. Digital caliper isn't very accurate.

Measure in inches please. .049" is what it would be close to.

For older strings, look for a fine wire wrapped around the colored threads in the peg pox area. Those are the old ones. The Flexocor that I remember are the ruby color threads, not the dark blue. However, I have found both types with the wire threads up a the top.

[Thomas Erickson]

Ok I remeasured a few more times; averaged out the G is .053 and the D .063. Final answer. These have the dark blue-purple silk on bottom, while up top they are the same but with the twist of silver wire. The last half of the D is red silk with the silver.

Pirastro really should post online a comprehensive chart showing all the different incarnations of their strings over the years - seems like nobody can keep this stuff straight. I'm probably the worst.

[Ken Smith]

Originally Posted by Thomas Erickson

Ok I remeasured a few more times; averaged out the G is .053 and the D .063. Final answer. These have the dark blue-purple silk on bottom, while up top they are the same but with the twist of silver wire. The last half of the D is red silk with the silver.

Pirastro really should post online a comprehensive chart showing all the different incarnations of their strings over the years - seems like nobody can keep this stuff straight. I'm probably the worst.

I have spoken with them and with someone here. Two conflicting stories. The NY guy tells me they were made here in USA and excess shipped back to Germany. The USA supplied strings made in USA. Pirastro denies that but my source knew the guy and company.

I have sent strings back to Pirastro in the past and they flat out deny what I have been told. They are very secretive about how things are made. For awhile, some believed that the current orig flex blue and the Original flatchrome white/blue were the exact same string. Pirastro sent me one of each and they are totally different in every way.

If they always made them in Germany, then why did they have to make the flex 92s and the orig flex all over again? They loose the recipe? Or, when the USA guy retired and closed up shop, he kept his info and just walked away?

So, regardless of what was, we have to deal in present time what is..

[Emanuele Carbone]

Hello,

I have a new "Stanzani" Italian double bass (105 cm, 3/4ish, flat-back) which is still "fresh" and quite on the bright side, tone-wise.

I bought it some months ago with a set of Flexocor (92's, the ruby wire ones) which I truly believe are "regular", quite a tested standard for bowing.

Well, compared to other basses around (which I have to say are old, or at least older and broken in - none of them has Flex mounted) my bass tends to have a fairly pronounced midrangy and ringing sound, full of those harmonics which remind me of a brass instrument, if you know what I mean. They project very well on upper solo registers, but the bass's sound is fairly thinner than those I have compared it with and tends to get scratchy, hollow and nasal during fast orchestra passages, at least from my point of listening, the player's one. Therefore, I find these strings a bit unforgiving: every minor bowing flaw seems to get through.

Now I'm starting to fancy a fairly punchier and bassier sound, with some more fundamental presence on this bass. Just to make a comparison with electric basses, which I hope won't sound stupid, it's as if I had a Fender Jazz and were looking for a timbre which is a bit more "MusicMan-ish"... and I love Fender Jazz basses, by the way!
The comparison could also be appropriate when talking about orchestra/small ensembe situations: there are times when it cuts through well, mostly during melodic passages, but overally I feel like the tone's a bit hollow within the "group".

What I'd like to know is:

- is that feeling quite common with these strings on new bright basses? Otherwise, are they a good way to judge whether a bass is a good-sounding one or not? I obviously hope that the earlier case is truer... I have to say that I tried to put a low E from a set of solo Flat-Chromesteel (white/blue wire) and it seems to sound creamier and fuller than the Flex E... even if it was meant to be tuned one tone higher! Unfortunately, the 3rd Flat-Cr. string tuned to A doesn't really work well instead.

- What would you suggest me as next replacement? I was thinking of Evah, or Obligato... would you throw in another option? I would avoid Belcanto because I'm afraid I'd still end up having a fairly nasal tone.

- According to my experience on this bass, I'd say that the Flexocor are a bit more suited for solo melodic playing rather than earthy orchestra passages. Is it true even if they are the choice for many orchestral players? Are they a good orchestral choice just for old or very dark basses?

Thank you in advance, thanks to Ken as well for this useful forum and to all its contributors!