Starting a DB Project

[Matthew Tucker]

Originally Posted by Adrian Levi

... two identical tops ...

Well, before anyone gets excited about the Austrian research, they better read it first and then make up their own mind. Gotta link or is it hearsay?

[Adrian Levi]

Originally Posted by Matthew Tucker

Well, before anyone gets excited about the Austrian research, they better read it first and then make up their own mind. Gotta link or is it hearsay?

Hearsay , and no link ..... IMHO as you suggest , no two tops are the same and I cant imagine how a diamond cleat can really be better or worse that a rectangular one . There are so many huge forces in play when a bass is in tension that I'm guessing a soundpost and bassbar are the crucial elements in top strength and small pieces of glued spruce seem really the 'band aids' ( I am by no means saying that they are not a necessity) of repair whereas patches are 'true structural implants' that play an integral part in real top strength . I am still in the early stages of learning to repair instruments so I really cant draw on the experience that you have but I'm sure that you have done some excellent repairs using cleats other than diamond shape in the past.

[Thomas Erickson]

Somehow, I tend to think that cleats of the same mass, in the same places, are going to sound the same. Call me crazy.

That said, from my perspective diamonds are going to: a) give you more crack-coverage for your given cleat mass, and b) anything that avoids putting things parallel to the grain sounds like a good idea to me.

Wayne - maybe it is just a matter of the instrument in question? Are diamond cleats lipstick on a pig if we're talking about a cheap factory bass?

[Arnold Schnitzer]

Here's my belief about the "scientific" instrument makers/ repair persons: If their methods are so great, why aren't their instruments better than the "craftsman/intuitive" makers'? I attended a talk recently where a violin maker with 20 plus years using the plate tuning technique (and other ****ysis tools) recently abandoned it, and says his instruments are better than ever, because he pays closer attention to his own instincts. This is a world-renowned maker; he's kept records on every instrument he has ever made. His main thrust was that no matter what you do, the resulting tone of the finished instrument will still be a surprise most of the time. As regards cleats, I'll take my decades of observation and experience (and that of many of my colleagues) over somebody's experiment with glitter or sand. Also to be considered is the fact that basses are different from the rest of the violin family, in that their plates are under much more stress because they are thinner in relation to their size, and because their huge width invites intense seasonal wood movement issues.

[Arnold Schnitzer]

Oh, and Diamonds Are a Girl's Best Friend...

(sexist and dated--sue me)

[Ken Smith]

Originally Posted by Arnold Schnitzer

Oh, and Diamonds Are a Girl's Best Friend...

(sexist and dated--sue me)

We can share a 'Cell' on that one..

And, Diamonds ARE Forever! Trust me, I did the Gig with her, twice!!

[Richard Prowse]

Originally Posted by Ken Smith

We can share a 'Cell' on that one..

And, Diamonds ARE Forever! Trust me, I did the Gig with her, twice!!

Ah, Ken, I love Shirley Bassey!!!
I grew up listening to her. She's in a class of her own!
I wish I'd been there on those gigs. Why didn't you call me at the time?

[Ken Smith]

Originally Posted by Richard Prowse

Ah, Ken, I love Shirley Bassey!!!
I grew up listening to her. She's in a class of her own!
I wish I'd been there on those gigs. Why didn't you call me at the time?

They were in NY in the late '70s/early 80s. If she calls me next week, I still wont call you.. lol

A job is a job.. right?

[Ruben E garcia]

I can’t really argue with any of you guys... about witch cleat work the best (Square, Diamond, feather, bevel)... I am 100% sure that there is not a perfect cleat... but different cleats show advantages and disadvantages (and some may be just bad) ... as long I don’t align the grain of the cleat with the top (that's just stupid) 45Deg, 30, and even 90 would do....by the way I am not discarding anybody’s point of view is supper interesting getting deep into the suggest I do have now a clear understanding of Cleats.

But where I really fail it was to get the cleats correctly fit to the top… it doesn’t matter how good a cleat can be… it won’t hide the fact that is not correctly jointed to the top…. Mistake a do believe is a product of not enough pressure applied, not well fit between top and cleat, and possibly I am not using the right procedure for the glue up… Hide glue is unlike any other glue that I ever work…. That Crucial moment… I was:

1) Applying glue to the top
2) Applying glue to the Cleat
3) Rubbing both
4) Waiting few second for proper bounding (I read to use a hair dryer to heat up the glue a this stage, or may be a should use a heat gun “may be too hot???”)
5) And clamping….


Now let me see if I do understand 100% are u guys talking about opening the crack again…??? It isn’t close enough…. Or just re-cleat?

Ps I am leaning towards Diamonds.... J my wife would agree with me J

[Thomas Erickson]

If the crack in question isn't closed up ship-shape, no cleat is going to get it there - you have to do your recon and complete the mission before you call in the airstrike, yeah? Cleats don't repair basses - they just help keep them together...

[Ruben E garcia]

Originally Posted by Thomas Erickson

If the crack in question isn't closed up ship-shape, no cleat is going to get it there - you have to do your recon and complete the mission before you call in the airstrike, yeah? Cleats don't repair basses - they just help keep them together...

Hi Friend ... so what do u make from the satellite picture that I took... to me the crack is closed... it’s an old crack is being repair before. Dirt got inside, I use hot water to open and clean… I did apply some good pressure and hot glue to it… but it will never look like a new crack… ready for an air strike?