" Name That Bass " aka "This OLD Bass"

[Ken Smith]

Here is a Bass with a very similar outline to mine;


What do you make of it?

[Ken Smith]

First off, what is the biggest Neck-Stand (from the Top to the underside of the Fingerboard) you guys have ever had or seen?

My Basses that were recently restored with the Necks re-set average from about 34-37+mm (1 3/8"-1 7/8+). I have heard of some using 40mm as a standard measurement as well.

My Big Bass was supposed to originally have the Shoulders Cut to get it down from a 44" String length to a 42" and then we opted for just a Block-cut instead. Towards the end of the restoration Biase lowered the Neck slightly into the modified Block and pulled the new Grafted Neck out at the heel to over 50mm. he just measured it over the phone and the current dry-fit is about 55mm or 2 3/16" out from the Top.

The Bridge was also placed on the upper most position that shows wear from before which sits just above the FF notches as seen here from the old scars;


Within the next week or so I will go into NY to meet with Biase and finalize the neck-Stand and String length. We are well within the 42" or less number now but I will do some final measurements when I get there. The Pitch he has the Neck at now is planned for about 10 degrees. I don't know if that is steep or shallow but I will have a look at it in a few days. I have no idea what pitches my other Basses are and I doubt any two are the exactly same as they all feel different when comparing the most recent 3 restored Basses, the Gilkes, Hart and Martini.

Because of several factors about this Bass like the long body length, the long original string length, the extra wide upper bouts and the Rib area at the Block that tapers down to 5 3/4" (from 8 1/2"), Biase feels that this Bass is now very playable without any cutting whatsoever. The Body and Shoulders of this old beauty has been respectfully preserved now 100% to its original build or at least from what we can tell.

[Arnold Schnitzer]

You mention a "pitch" angle of 10 degrees. Well, that's nice to know, but irrelevant as every bass will be different there. Some basses have setback in the neck block mortise, some are completely flat. Occasionally you encounter a bass where the block angles down in the front. So a ten degree angle on one bass may be perfect and on another be unplayable. What I'm saying is that pitch angle is not a measurement that can be used for comparitive purposes. Also, the amount of overstand you describe above is really excessive; the result could be shoulder strain (in the player) or even a split neck, as a huge amount of stressed end-grain wood will be hanging out of the body unsupported.

[Ken Smith]

Originally Posted by Arnold Schnitzer

You mention a "pitch" angle of 10 degrees. Well, that's nice to know, but irrelevant as every bass will be different there. Some basses have setback in the neck block mortise, some are completely flat. Occasionally you encounter a bass where the block angles down in the front. So a ten degree angle on one bass may be perfect and on another be unplayable. What I'm saying is that pitch angle is not a measurement that can be used for comparative purposes. Also, the amount of overstand you describe above is really excessive; the result could be shoulder strain (in the player) or even a split neck, as a huge amount of stressed end-grain wood will be hanging out of the body unsupported.

So, what should be the maximum 'overstand' for the integrity of the neck-heel as far as endgrain strength goes be? This Neck is a new graft made of aged European Maple (a Cello Back) which I purchased about 4 years ago from a supplier for the restoration project. The wood is fairy hard and high quality with tight narrow flame.

Also, the Bridge was figured out to be about 7" tall due to the wide 15 1/2" center bouts. I just looked Arnold and noticed that the Prescott, a similar large Bass that you restored also had the same 15 1/2" center bouts and Bowed just fine. Do you happen to recall what the Bridge height was on that Bass? I think the center Top arch is not far off between the two Basses from what I can see in the pictures.

[Matthew Tucker]

Originally Posted by Ken Smith

So, what should be the maximum 'overstand' for the integrity of the neck-heel as far as endgrain strength goes be? .

I don't think anyone can give a "maximum overstand". By what you wrote, the depth of the neck block at the top is 5 3/4". An overstand of 2" is about 1/3 of that total glued length, so the leverage moment is considerably higher than a "standard" overstand which would be about 1/5 of the total glued length. Make of that what you will.

If it's playability you are after, I think a canted fingerboard might allow you to reduce the overstand a bit and still get up into the higher reaches comfortably.

Originally Posted by Arnold Schnitzer

shoulder strain (in the player) or even a split neck, as a huge amount of stressed end-grain wood will be hanging out of the body unsupported.

That sounds like something that a decent pair of underpants could fix.

[Ken Smith]

Originally Posted by Matthew Tucker

I don't think anyone can give a "maximum overstand". By what you wrote, the depth of the neck block at the top is 5 3/4". An overstand of 2" is about 1/3 of that total glued length, so the leverage moment is considerably higher than a "standard" overstand which would be about 1/5 of the total glued length. Make of that what you will.

If it's playability you are after, I think a canted fingerboard might allow you to reduce the overstand a bit and still get up into the higher reaches comfortably.

Thanks Matt for your comments. I think by canted you mean pitched like Shimmed up at an angle? If so, pitching just the fingerboard will thicken the Neck up at the Heel and I don't think I want that. Pitching the Neck with fingerboard slightly more is an option. I also discussed this with Arnold on this over the Phone as well and about 2"/50mm is the maximum Overstand considered but again, each case is individual.

On the % of Overstand vs. depth of Block up at the Rib area, this particular Block was the existing one plus some wood was laminated under it to deepen the Block rather than replacing it entirely. This was better I think because an entirely new Block didn't have to be fit and the extra piece laminated gives it some slight cross grain or 'ply' if you will and should act stronger than a single piece. It was also much easier I'm sure just trimming it to the Ribs than a new Block as I mentioned.

We originally planned the Bridge to be about 7" tall with the string height at its lowest but I think I can get away with 6 3/4" and take the 1/4" or so off of the Overstand for starters. Also, I might make some more difference up with a steeper pitch in the Neck set and try for a maximum of 40-44mm of Overstand if possible.

This is a long bodied Bass and wide at the upper bouts as well. My tummy is also not as small as it once was either so only a personal fit like we have planned for later next week will tell me what really feels best. Since this is not any sort of cut, future owners of this Bass can re-adjust all of these numbers as they please. For now, it's how it feels to me that counts.

[Matthew Tucker]

A canted fingerboard is one that is not exactly parallel with the top, in this case you would thin the bass side of the fingerboard, so that the fingerboard is actually rotated ("canted") towards you slightly. This has the effect of raising the surface under the G string relative to the E side, making it easier to play in TP. I suppose you could set the whole neck at a slight angle as well, but that may look odd unless the whole bass is designed that way. Hmmmmmmmmmmm ...